UPDATE: Unruly Kids Disrupt Burien Library Lobby Thursday Afternoon


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by Ralph Nichols

A Burien Police sergeant responded to a call at the Burien Library late Thursday afternoon after a confrontation involving a large group of young males threatened to escalate in the lobby.

According to Sgt. Henry McLauchlan, the group of young males entered the lobby looking for another kid they knew.

After finding him there, words were exchanged, the one youth was harassed and then, apparently fearing that he would be attacked by the others, allegedly threw a punch at a young male in front of him.

The sergeant who responded to the call observed a young male running from the scene and onlookers pointed him out as being involved in the confrontation. When ordered by the sergeant to stop, the kid then ran and additional police assistance was summoned.

The situation was quickly defused and the running youth was quickly detained. No arrests have been made as of yet but the investigation continues.

One librarian estimated the crowd in the lobby before the police arrived at about 60.

McLauchlan said it is unknown if the incident involved gang members or was influenced by gang activity. That also remains under investigation.

He added that Burien police, who reduced disruptive behavior around the building last summer, will again increase their presence there.

PREVIOUSLY: A mob of about 60 young people reportedly got into a fight in the lobby of the Burien Library/City Hall Building at Town Square late Thursday afternoon.

Several Burien Police officers and King County Sheriff’s deputies responded to incident.

There was no immediate report of arrests or injuries.

More to come.

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Comments

84 Responses to “UPDATE: Unruly Kids Disrupt Burien Library Lobby Thursday Afternoon”
  1. Coverofnight says:

    First I watch the video of the Pawn Pros robbery, then see this post…..Lord, what’s going on around here? Seems like the riff-raff surrounding us is increasing. This only reinforces my reason to visit the library facility only when absolutely necessary, like when I renew my dog’s license at City Hall upstairs – guess I should look into doing it by mail from now on….:(

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    • Lisa B. says:

      If he’s big, just bring your dog.

      I agree with you on the riff-raff…and 60 people?! I’ve never seen more than 60 people in the library at any one time. Did the patrons all fight each other? I await the details…

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      • Paul B. says:

        The amount of kids that loiter around the outside of that building has been an issue since the new building has opened. Every time that I bring my kids to the library, there are kids outside, smoking, cussing, and being obscene. It was only going to be a matter of time for something like this to happen.

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        • areyouserious says:

          Lisa,

          You must only go early mornings to the library, because I’ve seen that many and more plenty of times. I bought a Kindle some time ago because of the nonsense that goes on there. I witnessed a young teen tell a cop to #$%^ off because he told him he couldn’t ride his skateboard outside of the library where there is a sign stating the same. I’m not surprised one bit. The library has become a hang-out spot and a place to access free internet.

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          • Lisa B. says:

            My husband heard this story and he in turn told me all about what goes on there. I really don’t go that often but my husband does, and this story got him all riled up.

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          • ^&%$%#$# says:

            Maybe facebook should create a virtual library where the kids could hang out. *lol*

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  2. Wulfie says:

    I was down there Monday night and had a heck of a time getting past all the kids hanging out smoking in the doorway to even get into the library! I am not suprised about this happening.

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  3. Erik Robbins says:

    Plus we can’t forget that this is the location of City Hall as well. I just don’t like bringing my kids there anymore. They need security. Loitering is way out of hand. Lovely town square atmosphere.

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  4. Fed Up says:

    I guarantee none of those involved had any books checked out. Strictly there for the free internet and the latest issue of sports illustrated.

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    • jared standiford says:

      isnt that what one of the resources of the library?? its provided for use so what if someone reads a magezine. dont knit pick o and the computers are used by everybody its provided as a perk to the library

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      • FLOYD VALLADE says:

        I wonder if it was JOCKS VS. STONERS! SORRY my age is showing…but i was a teen not so long ago and i understand how it is kickin it with your buddies,but at the LIBRARY?! Cmon people lets have a little respect! MAYBE some of these kids could use a little TOUGH LOVE in the form of a police baton! I HATE how everybody is so touchy feely nowadays…i have a 12 year old daughter who is the MODEL of respect and consideration of others.she uses the library from time to time and i would hate to think of her coming into contact with these punks! GET TOUGH!

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  5. b-town brown says:

    The amount of loud teenagers at the library is absolutely insane. What happened to the days where libraries were quiet? I was told by one of the librarians that they cannot do anything unless others complain. Now I spend 1/2 my time at the library complaining about the noise and disruption.

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  6. mike bond says:

    This doesn’t surprise me at all. I blame the parents, or lack of parenting skills. Security at the library? Great, my tax dollars going to babysit someone else’s rotten kid.

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  7. Ralph Nichols says:

    After speaking with King County Sheriff’s Office personnel, I have learned this wasn’t a “mob fight” as initially reported, based on the limited scattered information it was possible to gather at the time. But the incident apparently did involve a raucous crowd of young people and a brief altercation involving two of them. I will post a story Friday after getting more information from law enforcement.

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    • seahurst says:

      Whether it is a mob fight or not, the library isn’t pleasant to visit morning, noon or especially after dark. You can post any story you like, Ralph, but before you do, hang around the library for a few days.

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  8. jared standiford says:

    ok, the person that said people loitering is a problem hmm im a 16 year old student that goes to high line high school im at the library everyday every year, my comment to you is are u willing to fond a place for us to connect with friends? just like iv said to everyone else
    that has brought up this topic up. you cannot expect a public place to not have incidents weather it be fighting or noise complaints i hang out at the library yes but i also use the library as a resource for school and for personal use and i know many other adults and students that do as well so i say your comment is completely veto’s from this post

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    • Lisa B. says:

      Loitering is different than getting business done at the library. Burien Community Center has Teen Nights, and I’m sure there are youth groups at community centers and churches, etc. Even they wouldn’t let people stand right outside the doorway, smoke, skateboard, shout and swear at each other. That’s not nice behavior for a public place.

      No one has a problem with you doing stuff at the library, but when you disrupt other people’s right to use the library as a resource that becomes a problem. It’s not Burien taxpayers’ responsibility to keep you entertained.

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      • areyouserious says:

        Jared,

        I highly disagree with you. As a taxpayer, I should be able to go to the library and not have young people throwing their cigarattes, trash and foul language out for the rest of us to pick up and hear. That’s fabulous; we should find a place for you to go. No, your parents should. This is the reason I don’t go to the library and why my kid won’t be going to Highline.

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    • Jennifer says:

      Jared,
      The community Center is a short walk away and they over a after school activities for youth (that would include you and your friends). In addition the skate park is also close by. In my opinion those are both great places to hang out and kick it with your friends. The library is a great place to have study groups, do research and read! It is not a spot to just “hang Out.” I have to say on several occasion’s I have been appaled at the behavior of the teens hanging around. I work at a high school and i am used to teen behavior but, it is ridiculous. I use these moments as teachable moments with my 9 year old though…I remind him that this is not appropriate behavior, you need to have respect for others and in praticular adults!

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      • Nikki says:

        Not exactly true. The library was intended, in part, as a place to hang out, or otherwise socialize. There is a special area of the library that is intended for teens, and it seems set up for socializing. There is also a meeting room at the library for groups to get together for community or social activities. Libraries are intended as gathering spaces. They are also for studying, which is why there is the special quiet room for that, and the small study rooms, as well. But to deny that there is a community gathering element to libraries is disingenuous. Bad behavior is the problem. Teens hanging out is not.

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    • Nikki says:

      I have to support Jared on this one. The library should be a viable place for teens to hang out. A better place than many. I don’t think our community’s teenagers need to be “out-of-sight, out-of-mind.” I think they should be enjoying our public spaces with the rest of us. I find all the responses to the contrary to be abhorrent. The problem is not with teenagers hanging out in a public place. The problem is with bad behavior from a few of them doing it. The behavior needs to be addressed, but our public spaces belong to teenagers as much as they belong to adults or younger children.

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  9. David Ketcherside says:

    I have to echo some of the above comments as well. The last few times that I’ve been to the Burien library I had to walk past loud kids smoking right at the front entrance. They skate board back and forth across the entrance and don’t care what they scream about in public. I simply don’t bring my kids anymore. The police need to swing past here more often or they need someone to move them along. It is a shame that this is the new face of city hall.

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  10. jared standiford says:

    i hate to be posting so much but this incedint was behind the dollar around to the front by foot chase i watched it my self and got talked to by a officer

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  11. Meg Steele says:

    Wouldn’t it be powerful and amazing if the people complaining about kids smoking and loitering put their energy into being role models and mentors to kids, building better skate parks, offering homework help, volunteering with sports teams that have had their budgets cut, and teaching tolerance, positivity, and kindness? Imagine what Burien could be like if people didn’t point fingers at each other but instead looked inward for the answers to the community problems we all experience.

    As long as there have been cigarettes, teenagers have smoked them. As long as there have been libraries, kids have hung out in them. If there weren’t cigarettes, kids would do more drugs. If there weren’t libraries, kids would be in the grocery stores.

    Crime in the library is abominable, unacceptable. What are YOU willing to do about it besides complain and blame everyone else?

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    • Ralph Nichols says:

      Maybe insist as taxpayers that the local library and the King County Library System (which places more importance on “patron privacy” than on patron safety in parking lot by removing surveilance cameras) stop coddling unruly teens and young adults, stop letting the library be used as a young peoples’ community center, and start enforcing its own rules of behavior, prohibiting intimidating loitering at entrances, and banning repeat offender from library access? What a concept!

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    • areyouserious says:

      How about what are their parents going to do? It’s always up to everyone else to pick up the slack. The real issue is people who shouldn’t be having kids are the ones having the majority of them.

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    • Cindy Standiford says:

      I so agree with you.

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    • Sara says:

      Hey, how about their parents step in? Why can’t THEIR PARENTS willing to do? Why would you suggest that I be a mentor or do what I can to help these teens? I’m sorry, I’m busy actually raising and PARENTING my own children. Go figure.

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      • Sara says:

        ** meant – what are THEIR PARENTS willing to do?

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        • FLOYD VALLADE says:

          SPOILED ROTTEN! Most of us who are parents now didnt have anyone bending over backwards for us then.. we just had PARENTS! and most of us turned out ok!

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    • J W says:

      Meg Steele – Sorry, I’m too busy teaching my own kids how to behave themselves, LOL! Maybe when my kids are grown and gone I’ll have time for other people’s kids ๐Ÿ™‚ For the time being, I’ll complain as loud and long as I want ๐Ÿ™‚

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  12. Erik Robbins says:

    Jared. – Highline must be proud.

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  13. Cindy Standiford says:

    As the mother to Jared, I am proud of him for one not being involved with this incident and walking away; but also agree with him that where are our kids in Burien suppose to go to network with their friends. As I don’t agree with the smoking and language that is not appropriate for the library, I do agree that there is no where for the kids to go. What happened to community centers that were open to hang out, do homework just a place to be that is not stuck at home.

    We complain about them being in the streets or in the parking lots but don’t provide any alternatives.

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    • Wulfie says:

      WOW, there is a community center almost across the street where the old library used to be, and a skate park right there. Hang out and skate there! Maybe it is because the kids in the park actually have RULES and enforce them? Peer pressure can be great when it is applied correctly!

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      • areyouserious says:

        Amen to that. Go online to the City of Burien’s website and get him enrolled in a teen activity, or better yet, get him to volunteer somewhere.

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  14. Dawn says:

    Uhhh why cant kids go and hang out at each other’s houses?

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    • areyouserious says:

      Really? Here we go, let’s be our child’s friend. Let’s let them hang out on school nights instead of being at home and doing homework. Please. They can network with their friends at school during lunch and breaks. On the weekends, they should be doing something constructive.

      Like Dawn said, what’s the problem with them hanging out at each other’s houses when they do hang out? That’s what my kid does.

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  15. wheels says:

    Better they should hang out, smoke, skate, and swear at the library than in my neighborhood.

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  16. Anonymous says:

    Im one of those kids , i do understand how all of this is unacceptable but everyone who loiters around wont bother any little kids and thier parents. They got respect for that . no one is that cold hearted. I do understand its a bad thing for kids to see but they are going to eventually see stuff like that at a point in time of thier lives. I do agree some uneccesary stuff happens there but complaining is going to do nothing. But Kids just like to hang out with thier friends. All these adults did the same thing when they were a teen , they just wanted to hang with friends. Theres no where for kids to go but the nearest place is the library.

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    • Jennifer says:

      I will have to reply to this because I have encountered occasions when teens that have been hanging around have been very disrespectful to parents, older citizens. In fact one incident a teen ran down an elderly man and told him to get the hell out of the way. I made a comment to the teen that they need to apologize and be more considerate only to be told to mind my own f’ing business.
      As for the person who said we should mentor and be involved – many of us do! I volunteer for West highline Soccer, I am the drama club advisor at my school (Evergreen HS), I volunteer at my sons school to name a few. I know that at HHS there are MANY after school activites kids can be involved in so there are opportunities to do something productive and hang out with your friends.

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  17. ghost says:

    If you have a problem with the kids go say something to them and if not just mind you’re own business. I understand the anger but if you really want something done do it yourself instead of sitting down on your computer writing about it. You people are pathetic!!

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    • Sara says:

      Yeah, say something to them and get jumped or shot. Sounds fun.

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    • Gardener says:

      One must wonder why they are hanging out at the library? Every time I have been at the library it is full of people of all ages using the computers, reading and checking out material…Maybe they just want to belong? Maybe they can’t go to their house or their friends house to hang out…maybe they can…We don’t know why but we do know they like the library…What is wrong with saying “hi” to them or “how’s it going”….Do you really think you will get shot over that comment? To the woman who put down Highline high school student posting…shame on you…she was concerned enough to read this post and make a comment….is your child going to be so sheltered by not going to Highline. Does that make them better than the student who posted? We can blame the govermernt or parents….Young people NEED examples from all over….so I ask would you be a good example? Ask not what your country can do for you but what can you do for your country?

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      • Nikki says:

        Amen.

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        • raquel davis says:

          Not better, but probably smarter. That is not directed at Jared, but rather a general statement regarding our public school system. I can interact with these kids all day long, but in most cases, their parents aren’t supportive of other adults stepping in. That includes teachers. Little Johnny can do no wrong. Additionally, these kids need to be interested in being positive members of society. I’m sorry, but at 16 or 17, it’s too late for the majority of them. If the building blocks of good character aren’t already instilled, it’s a wrap. I’ve personally spoken to a few kids at the library and other public places, only to have them respond disrespectfully. I should note however that I’ve observed adults act in the same manner. Unfortuntately, they are probably somebody’s parent. That’s where it all begins!

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    • FLOYD VALLADE says:

      THE REAL problem is once i knocked one punk out, it would feel so good I couldnt stop!

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    • FLOYD VALLADE says:

      ooooh im scared of ghosts!

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    • FLOYD VALLADE says:

      OOOOOH Im scared of ghosts! speaking of,library needs to get some more paranormal slash cryptozoology stuff…ive already read all the stuff from the old library…

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  18. Gwen says:

    When I was in high school 10 years ago we used to hang out at the Denny’s, back before they raised their prices. A bunch of my friends smoked, and adults at school felt that they could be mean to you if you didn’t dress how they thought was proper. There were very few public places to hang out as teenagers. I think that it’s hard to realize in real-time that being what adults consider a nuisance in public endangers access to these spaces. Being unsupervised with your peers is a quintessential coming-of-age experience. I hope that the kids can get it together and do a little self-policing so that the few existing places can stay relatively free of police (goodness knows that some of the highschools have started to feel like penal colonies).

    For context, I’m now finishing my PhD in Engineering at an Ivy league university.

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  19. Eaton B. Verz says:

    Let’s start a “Fight nite in Town Square” 18 and under, no guns. Other weapons negotiated. Charge admission. Mike martin could open a beer garden! All proceeds could go towards annexation. Might even help sell a few condos and fill some retail space!……….

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  20. Eaton B. Verz says:

    Just kidding!!!!

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  21. Shae says:

    Wow, when I grew up in Burien in the 80’s, we wouldn’t be caught DEAD hanging out at the library!! So un-cool! (no offense Burien Library). Maybe they should crank out some Lawrence Welk or somethiing outside lol

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  22. Elizabeth says:

    Shae has the best point of everyone – Lawrence Welk would do the trick in no time! (Also I’ve heard that shopping malls use a high pitch sound that only those who are very young can hear to avoid congregating by entrances.)

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    • J W says:

      UGH – so that’s what that sound is! I’m not exactly a spring chicken, but that noise has been driving me batty! Good to know what it is, now I can just smile when I hear it ๐Ÿ™‚

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  23. CW says:

    There will always be a percentage of teenagers who smoke, swear and are loud. The new generation has no shame and will do these things in public. 15 years ago, when I was in high school, we had to go hide in the woods or in someone’s basement to do these things. If we would have done these things at the library, we would have had a librarian kicking us out and making us leave the premises. We don’t need more police–they are expensive. What we need are more staff at the library who can interact with the patrons and ask those who are disruptive to tone it down or leave. We need to find out what the obstacles are that are keeping these employees from managing their patrons. Is it a lack of resources? Or is it intimidation?

    Also, quit picking on Jared. If he’s posting on the B-Town blog (correct grammar or not) then that means he’s not out in front of the building smoking and swearing. He’s setting a good example by being involved in local problem solving discussion.

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  24. Conner says:

    OH MY GOD..
    unless you people are relevant to the people involved, your opinions aren’t. Who here is under 20? anyone? at all? let me see a hand or two. because unless your there at the library witnessing whats going on, you don’t know anything but what your told. this was the 1st i failed to witness but i wouldn’t be surprised to know all of them, and what you know as “Ghetto” your not even close. you think teenagers are bad now? wait til our little siblings and your kids grow up. there’s young-lings doing tweak now, ending up homeless, loosing everything day by day. you guys think your helping but your not, why don’t you old crabs actually do something to help out instead of being bystanders? get ready Burien, cause you haven’t seen the last of it. i smoke weed everyday, and i’m str8 up the nicest person you could meet, i understand you, and i know of the shit that this world really deals with, i know.. your scared, but its ok. and don’t blame hip hop if you really have a problem, blame yourself, who’s taxes pay for the satisfaction of the world of youth hating their parents that dont care and abuse them, or the families that have no money. you have an STI by chance? maybe a ’12 Mitsubishi? well i hope you bystanders are happy not having to do anything yourselves. thinking you work hard evreyday, your digging your own grave, get a clue.

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    • Sara says:

      Wow, another productive member of society.
      People need to stop having kids if they are not going to raise them and instill morals and values. Kids like this are what is wrong with society (among many other things) and we only have their parents to thank. I am sure glad I opted to have children and to teach them right from wrong and to have respect for other people. I don’t want my kids running around being jerks for no reason other than they are bored and they think it’s cool.

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    • Sara says:

      Conner, what is it you suggest we do? There are various programs out there available but that are not taken advantage of. Can you honestly say you are proud to smoke weed every day even if you consider yourself the nicest guy? Is that really what you want for your life? Why don’t you stop expecting everyong else to steer the youth in the right directions and maybe hold yourself and your parents accountable. If your parents suck, seek out an adult that doesn’t – a teacher, a family friend, an aunt/uncle. Quit telling me what I should be doing and take some responsibility for your actions.

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    • J W says:

      Ohhh, Conner, the stories I can tell from 30 years ago at HHS don’t sound so very different. Except now, the teens are a little less discreet about where they do what they do, and technology is different. And we all knew in 5th grade what was going down with drugs, gangs, sex, and such. We do indeed know what we’re talking about, which is why we’re tough on our own kids.

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    • J W says:

      Oh, and if you want a real eye-opener, read some literature about gangs in the 1940’s and 1950’s. It wasn’t at all like “West Side Story,” LOL!

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  25. TcB says:

    I don’t visit the library too often, but I have never seen anything like this. This is kind of scary stuff by use reading the comments. I guess I’ll look for some disrespectful behavior the next time I go. And to you kids, Get Off My Lawn!

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  26. JS says:

    Too many rich “better-than-thous” in these comments. Just what else is there for young people to do around Burien? Especially that doesn’t cost money. Sorry they’re not all on 4 sports teams and taking music lessons. Besides, what’s a town square for, but to provide a meeting place for the town’s residents?

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    • raquel davis says:

      If you are in a public place, common courtesy and decency are required. You don’t have to be rich to have these qualities.

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      • JS says:

        Then perhaps someone should take the initiative and teach them instead of demonizing them.

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        • raquel davis says:

          Sure. Have at it. By the way, this isn’t directed at all kids. There are alot of great kids doing the right thing. However, it’s a bit idealistic to think you are going to teach anyone anything without their wanting to learn. For some people it takes the school of hard knocks and sometimes that doesn’t even work. By all means try, but don’t expect me to stop being a realist.

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    • J W says:

      JS – they can do their homework, get jobs or start their own businesses, apply for scholarships and financial aid, and get into college. What’s wrong with that?

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    • J W says:

      JS – I have a warm & dry place to sleep, clothes to wear, food to eat, electricity, sewer, garbage collection, indoor plumbing, and transportation. My children are getting an education. That’s “rich” by world standards. By American standards, I’m barely getting by. So quit making assumptions about income. Poverty is no excuse for bad manners and shiftlessness.

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  27. Lindsay says:

    Teens are part of our community and the library is a community resource. They are as welcome in libraries as everyone and anyone else. However, KCLS does have a code of conduct that should be enforced. That being said, current budget concerns and constraints have an impact on library staffing levels and their ability to monitor behavior. Libraries are busy places and staff cannot always be or see everywhere and everything happening. The public’s assistance in alerting staff is appreciated and library staff never dismiss public concerns. The Burien Library serves a great community and the staff is a smart, capable group that do their best for the public. Please keep in mind that they are also people who work hard and do an excellent job every day. While this in an unfortunate incident, the library is a resource meant for the entire community. Please do not feel that you cannot utilize your library and the resources therein. Furthermore, if you have concerns, share them freely with the staff who will do their very best to help you in any way that they can.

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  28. Mike K says:

    I have gone to the library with my family, as we use it often, and have been almost run into by kids on bikes, skateboards, and big-wheels. When asked to move, they reply with cussing or ignoring people. I have two teens of my own and if my child was talking this way or disrespecting anyone this way, there would be consequences. First and foremost, if possible, an apology in person to the one that was mistreated. The behavior is not only disrespectful but also a direct reflection on their parents. So answer me this, why should we step in where there own parents have failed them and themselves? This is all in how they are raised and the changes need to come from the parents.
    The police have tried to assist with this but as the library’s stand on this is the do not want them removed from the property, so there is nothing they can do. This all falls to the library to make a stand to end this. They hired an officer to sit there last summer, but tell me what they are to do if they can not remove them, or cite them?

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  29. Ann C. says:

    It might help all of you to read Ann Coulter’s work on the damage that single motherhood has done to our society. There are numerous studies that detail how growing up in a home without a father sends kids down the wrong path.
    Her new book about Liberalism and mobs fits this story too. I understand people want to believe what they believe but she describes our problems here in Burien perfectly.
    Everybodys a victim now. Even if they are victimizing others.
    And for those of you struggling in your marriage, here is some possible help:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203806504577180811554468728.html?KEYWORDS=marriage+killer

    Having a mother and father who are willing to stop nagging and start helping each other might keep our kids from becoming an unruly, scary mob at the Burien Library.

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    • Ian Gunsul says:

      So what about widowed, divorced and abandoned mothers? And victims of rape? Are they the root of the problem with society?
      Ann Coulter is a hypocrite that spouts off hate filled rhetoric just to keep her “celebrity”.
      Here’s a couple of her choice tidbits I’m sure women everywhere agree with-

      ”It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact. In fact, in every presidential election since 1950 – except Goldwater in ’64 – the Republican would have won, if only the men had voted.”
      โ€”Ann Coulter, May 17, 2003

      ”I think women should be armed but should not vote…women have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend it…it’s always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care.”
      โ€”Ann Coulter, on ”Politically Incorrect,” February 26, 2001

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    • justacook says:

      read Ann Coulter???!!! Great idea- Let’ pile hateful propaganda on top of all this

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    • J W says:

      Sorry, I know a single mom with model-citizen kids. Ain’t buying Colter’s rhetoric.

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    • Jennifer says:

      I am a single mom and my son is a very respectful young man. He is a great student and kind to his friends and adults. I expect nothing less from him. So please don’t lump all single moms together! In fact I know many single moms and they have very well adjusted respectful kids.

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    • J W says:

      Good grief! I just went to Ann Coulter’s website to refresh my memory a bit, and there are fallacies in her book titles alone!

      Ad hominem: _If Democrats Had Any Brains, They’d Be Republicans_

      Straw Man: _Treason: Liberal Treachery From the Cold War to the War on Terrorism_

      And just plain snobbiness: _How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)_

      Ann C – please, please, please extract yourself from this lady’s destructive rhetoric!

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    • Rainycity says:

      Heh,heh, I know that it`s easier for a kid to walk on a single parent be it male or female
      and a lot of the time it is the mother (Mainly because they have to work 2 jobs in order to support them) which is sad but saying they are the cause of this is as bad as that freud or spock fellow or whatever his name was or is, (I really don`t give a rats ass what it was so no need to “educate” me on it) saying spanking your kids messes them up for life.
      I really think I`ll take my advice from the bible and our Lord before I would ann coulter
      Even though I only spanked mine when they did something dangerous like going down to the lake when they were young, running through a parking lot etc. I would have spanked them more if I had to , I was lucky I guess and just never had to.
      We all have our opinions and I have more than most being a pretty opinionated person. I love a good argument.
      I agree with Elizabeth, she found a gimmick to make money off the sheep and is taking advantage of it.

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    • Othersideofthetracks says:

      Ann C.
      You married and or have kids?

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  30. Ann C says:

    Yes, typical liberal response to Ann Coulter. You cannot dispute her facts so you just call her names and attribute dishonest and unfair charateristics to her.
    She has the facts and data, liberals only have invective.
    If any of you here in Burien are fair minded, read her work on mobs and single motherhood before you start calling her names.

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    • J W says:

      Ann C – honey, I’m about as conservative as they come. When I see a single mom doing the best she can and two delightful children growing up into good people, I don’t point fingers and say, “Bad, bad, bad mommy! Get married NOW!” Her situation is what it is, and what really and truly matters is that here and now, those kids are turning out just fine. God works in all kinds of different ways. You don’t even know that mother’s situation, so quit making sweeping judgmental statements about single mothers. Believe me, if you were in her shoes, you wouldn’t want someone pushing propaganda at you.

      P. S. – There’s a great book called _The Fallacy Detectives_ by Nathaniel and Hans Bluedorn you really need to read. I don’t appreciate your ad hominems and hasty generalizations.

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  31. Elizabeth says:

    I think Ann Coulter has found a gimmick and she sticking with it all the way to the bank.

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  32. Jack says:

    I just had a friend call me to tell me about an incident where four teens surrounded her when she stepped outside the library to speak on her phone. They asked her to buy them a pet at the store across the street! Seems like a security officer is needed.

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