City of Burien Releases FAQ Document on Proposed Annexation of North Highline

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This week the City of Burien released a ‘Frequently Asked Questions‘ (FAQ) document that includes its own questions and answers about the proposed annexation of North Highline, which is set to be on the Nov. 6 ballot.

For anyone not familiar with ‘FAQs’, they started as lists of answers to common questions in Usenet newsgroups back in the early days of the online revolution, with the first being posted around 1983.

“Today they are considered a convenient, standard mechanism for answering basic questions asked by new users,” according to a historical page on FAQs.

Here’s the full text of Burien’s nine-page FAQ, which can be downloaded directly here (as a Word .doc):

City of Burien Proposed Annexation of North Highline
Election: Nov. 6, 2012

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

1. What is annexation?
Annexation is the process set by State law which enables cities to add land to their boundaries and expand in size. Annexation also allows residents and businesses in areas not governed by a city to join a city and receive city services.

2. Why does Burien want to annex part of the North Highline Unincorporated Area?
King County and its cities agree that all urban unincorporated areas in the County will eventually be absorbed into cities. It is believed that this may result in more efficient delivery of services and improved access to local decision-makers. In accordance with Washington State’s Growth Management Act (GMA) and Countywide Planning Policies, Burien has been studying the most reasonable and financially responsible means to advance the goals of the Growth Management Act.

3. What are the boundaries of the Proposed Annexation Area?
The North Highline Annexation Area’s northernmost boundary is generally the current Seattle City Limits east to Des Moines Memorial Drive, south to S. 96th Street, east to SR-599 (the current Tukwila City Limits), south to the current Burien City Limits, and west to Seola Beach Drive/30th Avenue SW.  An interactive map showing the boundaries of the annexation areas may be viewed at  You can enter your address to find out if your property falls within that area.

4. How were the boundaries determined?
Since 2005, the City of Burien has initiated and participated in a number of activities that determined the current set of boundaries.  These activities included:

  1. Numerous public hearings and conversations with citizen groups and individuals
  2. An independent fiscal analysis of the proposed North Highline Annexation
  3. A series of meetings with special purpose districts that serve the North Highline Area

5. How much land is proposed for annexation and how would it affect the City’s population?
The land proposed for annexation is 2,045 acres. Approximately 17,400 persons would be added to Burien’s population.  Following annexation, Burien would grow to about 8,500 acres with a population of about 65,000.

6. What is the annexation process?
The City filed an annexation request in October 2011.  The King County Boundary Review Board approved Burien’s request to annex in February 2012.  Next, registered voters within the proposed annexation area will have an opportunity to vote on the annexation at the November 6, 2012, General Election. If approved, the actual annexation would likely occur in 2013.

7. What percentage of votes is necessary to approve the annexation?
The annexation will require a simple majority to pass. Please remember, to be eligible to vote, you must be registered to vote at least 30 days in advance of an election.

8. What happens to my government services after annexation?
Upon annexation to the City of Burien, the annexed area would continue to be served by special districts and receive local services from the city or through a city contract with the county. Burien contracts sheriff and, district court services from the county.

Burien would provide additional services, including:

  • Animal Control
  • Building Permits
  • Comprehensive Planning & Economic Development
  • Human Services
  • Police
  • Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services
  • Road Maintenance
  • Surface Water Management

9. Will My Address Change from “Seattle” to “Burien” after Annexation?
Not necessarily. Residents can use either “Seattle” or “Burien” in the address and mail will be delivered as long as the proper zip code is included.

10. How is Burien governed?
Burien has a Council-Manager form of Government. The council-manager form consists of an elected city council responsible for policy making, and a professional city manager, appointed by the council, who is responsible for administration.

The current City Council members are:

  • Brian Bennett, Mayor
  • Rose Clark, Deputy Mayor
  • Jack Block, Jr.
  • Bob Edgar
  • Lucy Krakowiak
  • Joan McGilton
  • Jerry Robison

11. Does my school district boundary change?
No. School district boundaries are not affected by annexations.


1. How would annexation affect property taxes? 
The combined overall change in property and utility taxes for the average household would be an increase of about $90 per year.The property tax rate will decrease from $14.07 to $13.74 per $1,000 assessed value beginning the second year of annexation. For property with an assessed value of $200,000, this would result in a reduction of $65.

The City levies a 3% utility tax on electric and a 6% utility tax on cable, gas, garbage and telephone utilities. Based upon usage, the average impact is estimated to be an additional $155 per year paid by utilities customers.

2. Will my property value increase with annexation?
Real estate market conditions drive real property values. Assessed values, which are used to formulate annual property taxes, are applied by the King County Assessor’s office, county-wide. This will continue to be the case if annexation occurs. To learn more about how the County values property and improvements, please visit

3. Once annexed, when do City taxes show up on property tax bills?
If the annexation is approved in the fall and if it is effective in April 2013, the City would levy its first tax on the annexed property in November 2013 and the tax levy would be on the 2014 tax bills.

4. How will costs to businesses be impacted by annexation?
Businesses in Burien pay an annual business license fee and a 0.05% Business & Occupation Tax. The cost for a retail business with gross receipts of $250,000 and fewer than 40 employees would be:

  • B & O Tax: $125/year
  • Business License: $90/year

5. What is the financial impact of the annexation on the City’s overall budget?
A recent independent financial analysis concluded that the cost to provide City services within the proposed annexation area would be offset by projected revenues – including the State sales tax credit for up to 10 years.Streets and Surface Management (Public Works)

6. What services does the Burien Public Works Department provide?
The Burien Public Works Department is responsible for the maintenance and operation of the City’s transportation and surface water management facilities. In addition, the Department is responsible for implementing the City Council-approved Capital Improvement Program by providing engineering, project management and technical services, using staff as well as design consulting firms.

7. If annexed, who will maintain the streets and alleys, including potholes and snow plowing?
Burien’s Public Works Department will be responsible for street repairs in the annexed areas and maintenance including plowing and sanding streets after a snowstorm.  Priorities are based on traffic volumes and street grades. Many local residential streets are not plowed during any event. The City maintains an ice-sanding and snow-removal map identifying priority streets on its website. If annexed, streets in the potential annexation areas will be added to the City’s weather-related street maintenance prioritization system.

The City also repairs potholes. Any resident can phone the Public Works Department the location of a pothole and City crews will repair it within two business days. To report a pothole, please call (206) 248-5521. If leaving a message, please indicate the specific location of the pothole (street, cross streets, etc.).

8.  Who pays for street improvements?
The City funds street capacity and safety improvements through a combination of City funds, developer fees, and grants. In addition, the City offers property owners the opportunity to finance infrastructure improvements on their street, such as installation of sidewalks, curbs and gutters through a local improvement district (LID). LIDs directly benefit property owners by increasing the value of their property to a degree equivalent to or greater than their financial investment.

9. How does the City of Burien plan for future improvements to roads?
The City has a long-range planning process it uses to identify safety, capacity, and pavement preservation needs. The City uses a traffic model to project future traffic and plan for street improvements to accommodate that traffic. The City uses collision data, speed studies, and input from residents to identify safety needs. The City also produces the Transportation Master Plan, a 20-year planning document, and the Transportation Improvement Program (TIP), a 6-year project programming and financing plan. The TIP is updated annually and helps the City Council and staff prioritize projects for implementation. Upon annexation, the City would work with the annexed neighborhoods to put together a long range plan for street improvements.

10. What street improvements will be done immediately if the annexation is approved by voters?
Following annexation, the pavement condition of the streets will be rated to determine what pavement maintenance investments are needed.  The needs will be prioritized and incorporated into the City’s maintenance and street overlay program. Future capital street improvements will be identified and prioritized during the public process to update the City’s Transportation Plan.



1. How will the annexation affect fire and emergency services?
Currently fire and EMS services are provided by King County Fire District #11 (North Highline).  In addition to the unincorporated area of North Highline,  Fire District #11 is the current fire and emergency services provider to a portion of north Burien, by means of a service contract with King County Fire District #2 (Burien/Normandy Park). If annexation is approved, responsibility for fire and EMS services in the newly annexed area would transfer to District # 2.  State law provides for the orderly transfer of service responsibility through statute.  Service responsibility as well as asset and employee transfer statues will ensure that services provided to the citizens currently served by either district will remain intact and uninterrupted.


1. Who will provide police service for my area?
There will be a seamless transition of police services in the annexed area. The Burien Police Department currently contracts with the King County Sheriff’s Office. Deputies that currently provide service will likely be the same with a simple change in uniforms and car markings.

2. How will my police service change?
The annexed area will have at least the same level of service and possible a slightly higher level. The close working relationship with the Sheriff’s Office allows for a depth of service that covers both Burien and North Highline. The City of Burien also has a crime prevention program as well as drug, gang and property crime detectives. With our contract service, Burien also has the vast resources of King County Sheriff’s Office to support the City.


1. Will my sewer or water provider change with annexation?
No. The Burien Proposed Annexation Area will retain its current water and sewer service providers after annexation. The designated sewer service providers in the annexation area are the Southwest Suburban Sewer District and Valley View Sewer District. The water service providers will continue to be Water District 20, Water District 45 and Seattle Public Utilities.

2. If I am on septic tank do I have to switch to sewer?
Approval of the annexation will have no impact on the continued use of existing on-site disposal systems (septic tanks) which are operating in accordance with applicable laws and regulations.

3. How will my garbage service change?
The garbage service provider for annexed property will not change.  Waste Management has similar service contracts within the annexation area and the City of Burien. There could be slight service/pricing changes in the year following annexation.  You can read more about the services provided at

4. I currently take my trash directly to the transfer station and do not have garbage service from a solid waste provider. Will garbage service be mandatory with annexation?
The City of Burien does not require the mandatory use of Waste Management collection services.  Property and business owners are responsible for properly storing garbage/refuse and for removing garbage/refuse at a similar rate as the service provided by Waste Management.

5. Does a City have a utility tax?
The City levies a 3% utility tax on electric and a 6% utility tax on cable, gas and telephone utilities. The utility tax charged on the utility goes to the general fund to provide services to the City, including street maintenance, public safety and other general services.

6. What type of utility discount programs does the City offer?
The City of Burien does not manage the utilities that serve Burien and the North Highline area.  Both areas are served by special purpose districts, many of which offer discount programs.

  • King County Water District No. 20 offers a Senior Citizen, Low Income, and Disabled Discount. Go to for more information on the program.
  • Southwest Suburban Sewer District has adopted a program to assist low income households within the district. Go to for more information on the program.
  • The Valley View Sewer District’s Utility Assistance Program or “the Flush Fund” was created to help families in crisis with their sewer bill.  Go to for more information on the program.


1. How will the zoning on my property change?
Upon annexation, the City of Burien would adopt an interim zoning map that would most likely apply the existing Burien zoning districts that are most comparable with King County’s existing zoning in the annexation area. That means that if annexation is approved, the minimum lot sizes, setbacks, and permitted uses are likely to be similar, if not identical to the current zoning. Some exceptions may be made for zoning districts like R-8 and special overlay districts that currently exist in King County but not currently in Burien.  Over time, the City would work with residents and business owners to prepare comprehensive plans and zoning maps for the annexed neighborhoods. Any proposed changes to zoning would be considered through an open public process. All decisions about comprehensive planning and zoning in the annexed neighborhoods will be made by the Burien City Council based on a recommendation by the Burien Planning Commission.  This is the same process the City used following annexation of North Burien.

2. Will I be able to continue to build if I applied for a County construction permit before the annexation is effective?
Yes.  Completed construction permit applications submitted to the County prior to the effective date of the annexation will continue to be processed, reviewed and inspected under County codes and regulations provided the permit remains active and does not expire.

3. Where will I go to get licenses and permits?
After annexation, land use and construction permits would be obtained from the City of Burien Permit Center, at Burien City Hall, 400 SW 152nd Street (3rd floor) in downtown Burien.  We also offer many simple building permits online at

4. Does Burien have a code enforcement program to address a specific problem or eyesore?
The City has full-time code enforcement staff members who regularly respond to a variety of code enforcement concerns and who work with other members of City staff to take enforcement action where necessary. Citizens may file “Citizen Action Requests” in person at City Hall, over the phone or online.

5. How long will it take to get a building permit for a new house in Burien?  How about for a remodel or addition to my house?
You can expect comments on a permit application for a new house within four weeks of submitting a complete application for a new house. If a resubmittal is required, you can expect comments and a possible decision within another four weeks. For an addition or remodel, you can expect comments within three weeks of submitting a complete application. If a resubmittal is required, you can expect comments and a possible decision within another three weeks.


1. How would annexation affect public parks in the proposed annexation area?
Parks within the proposed annexation areas that would be transferred to the City of Burien by King County include:

NameLocation (click for map)



North Shorewood ParkSW 102nd St and 24th Ave SW


Multi-Purpose Court
Picnic Tables
Play Equipment Area
Equestrian Arena


White Center Heights ParkSW 102nd St and 7th Ave SW


Picnic Areas
Community Garden

Stage and Amphitheater

Walking trail








Lakewood Park11050 10th Ave SW


Parking lot

Disc Golf Course

Open Play Fields

Picnic Shelters

Play Equipment Areas


Open Tennis Courts

TAF Community Learning Center










41.32 acres

Parks in the North Highline area previously annexed by the City of Burien include:

NameLocation (click for map)



Puget Sound Park1st Ave S and 126th St SW


Multi-Purpose Court
Open Play Field
Parking Lot
Picnic Area
Play Equipment Area
Running Track


Salmon Creek ParkSW 118th and 8th Ave SW


Open Play Field
Picnic Tables


Hazel Valley Park2nd Ave SW and 126th St


Open Play Field
Picnic Table


Arbor Lake ParkS 124th St and 4th Ave S



Play Equipment Area
Open Play Field

Picnic Area




Southern Heights ParkS 120th St and 14th Ave S


Open Play Field
Play Equipment Area


Hilltop ParkS 128th and 26th Ave S


Open Play Field
Picnic Tables



 31.61 acres

Under the management of the City of Burien Parks, Recreation & Cultural Services Department, the parks within the annexation area would receive the same levels of park maintenance and would be evaluated for play equipment and furnishing replacement. Master planning of these park properties may also be necessary. The City of Burien would evaluate park needs based on City standards.

2. How would recreation programs being offered in the proposed annexation area be impacted?
Recreation programs offered through King County Parks at the Field House in Steve Cox Park are managed by King County Parks.

As they have in the past, residents of the North Highline annexation area will continue to have access to the services of Burien’s Parks, Recreation & Cultural Services Department, which provides preschool, youth, teen and adult leisure programs for those interested in fitness and wellness, cultural arts, sports, and special events.  Numerous programs are also designed to provide social and recreational opportunities to senior citizens and those with special needs.

Based on the City’s standards for program provision and analysis of potential residents’ needs, additional youth programs and family special events may also be offered in the annexation area.

To learn more about the programs offered by the Burien Parks, Recreation & Cultural Services Department, visit its website at You can also follow Burien Parks on Facebook ( and Twitter (

What will happen to the private parks in my subdivision that are owned and maintained by the homeowners’ association?
The private parks in your subdivision will continue to be owned and maintained by the homeowners’ association.

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42 Responses to “City of Burien Releases FAQ Document on Proposed Annexation of North Highline”
  1. Feisty1 says:

    #1 Burien has no real animal control….#2 Great idea to name the council members and NOT the unknown Manager…they won’t know about Mr. Martin. Please register to vote your choice.

  2. JJ Greive says:

    We Welcome our neighbors to the north. Anything is better then letting Seattle neglect another neighborhood that borders our town. If the members of area Y want a voice, they will in Burien. If we leave it to Seattle they will get swallowed up into a city 10 times the size, diluting their influence and reducing their representation.

    • Mike says:

      I’ve read all the posts on BTown regarding annexation. I’m not convinced its a good idea. Mismanagement i.e. failure to be forthright about the number of police officers without raising taxes, better animal control than K.C.? Will taxes be raised to cover infrastructure that KC didn’t fix? To many questions, too many non-answers from mike (DUI) martin. Someone please convince me annexation is good for Area Y.

      Area Y Mike

    • john poitras says:

      JJ you misspeak and are making a conclusion that is like a dog that will not hunt!

      Why will the North Highline residents expect any more of a response and action from a City Council that is currently unresponsive and inactive to the vast majority of its current residents.

  3. Joey Martinez says:

    This obsession with Mike Martin is really concerning to me. I feel like there are those who truly believe that if we only got rid of Mike Martin all of our problems would be solved.

    I will agree that all of the complaints against him have some merit. I feel like he could do a better job. Honestly however, I can say that about every elected official and bureaucrat that works on my tax dollar. I will never be fully satisfied, and neither should you! Always demand better results even if you fully agree with everything they ever do.

    Burien, as a city isn’t flush with cash, but we’re not hurting… Yet. Looking at our neighbors we are looking quite good. SeaTac has about 3 months of reserves. Des Moines has looked at unincorporating as a city as recently as 2007 (before the recession) and Ralph Nichols had a good piece on Normandy Park exposing their problems. Even Seattle is looking to cut $39 million from the general fund.

    Firstly, I am not convinced that RAS-KC is the answer. From the contract city citizens I have talked to they all said that the services are no where near as good as the old king county model. OVERALL however, I feel that the council chose CARES because they listened to us, the residents of Burien. For example, there was overwhelming rejection of even the idea of raising taxes the 1% allowed by law. Would we really support a tax increase?

    That is the question I leave to you. I might but then again some call me “Moretaxes”.

    “Moretaxes” from the federal, state, and county levels spent in Burien! More taxes collected from sales tax because everyone wants to spend money in Burien! More property taxes collected in Burien because our homes are worth more!

    Joey Martinez

    • Eaton B. Verz says:

      Martin isn’t the only problem with Burien. There are many and IMOP we will just be compounding them by annexing. You have yet to convince me otherwise. To create change you usually start at the top. Martin should go. A man that dishonest should have never been put in the position he now holds. Eaton

      • Joey Martinez says:

        Problems, if they truly do exist, are usually institutional so changing the head of anything is a long shot solution. They usually need to come in and clean house. Whether that makes any difference is debatable but it does appear Martin tried that.

        There was a vocal minority who also asked for the previous City Manager’s head on a platter. Are they ALL really that bad or is it us just ALWAYS demanding better (which I support) from those who work for us.

        If you really want to make a change in government you need to take your complaints to the council. And I don’t mean at public comment. If they responded to public comment they’d be working on eliminating the minimum wage right now.

        Ask for and meet with council members and lobby them directly. Don’t assume they read the blog (althought I am sure some do). How do they know whether there is really a lot of people with complaints or just an overzealous few making noise, possibly, with multiple accounts?

        Joey Martinez

        • Eaton B. Verz says:

          My experience has been that when a team, business unit , etc no longer performs as it should the leader is held responsible. If institutional changes are needed that seems to me to be the place to start.

          I have contacted our council members and Mr. Martin on more than one occasion with my concerns and recieved responses from just three. If a person that is supposed to work for me doesn’t have the courtesy to repond to a question or concern it speaks volumes.

          Sorry Joey, Just one account…………Eaton

          • Joey Martinez says:

            First, please know that I am a “technologist” and a computer geek. The thing I love about technology is that, in this setting, it gives people a voice who might not otherwise be heard. It allows you to do these things anonymously and from the comfort of your own home.

            At the same time, as a “technologist”, I know the problems presented in “E-Gov” are huge and why there is no online voting right now. That same anonymity COULD allow a single person with lots of free time to hi-jack something (for or against). How do you know this is really me? I took a quick glance at the online voter database and I see no “Verz” to vote in the state. I do see three Eaton’s registered with one in Federal Way being the closest. For all anyone knows I could be “Eaton” having a conversaton with myself. Not saying I am 😉

            If the problems you are having are important enough I hope you don’t stop at the e-mail level. Show up to a meeting and introduce yourself.

            You also have to remember that an elected official represents not just you but every resident, whether they vote or not. They have to take things into account most of us don’t think about on a daily basis.

            If you came at them saying “Mike Martin is the spawn of Satan he needs to go” you will not be very effective. They hear that from some of us on a daily basis. You need to think at the MACRO city level, which is where policy makers have to think and present your information at that level. An effective arguement could be something like “Mr Martin makes X amount of money but every other city manager in similarly sized cities with these circumstances makes Y which is Z% less than Mike. Here is the data supporting this…”

            Finally, if at first you don’t succeed, try try again!

            Joey Martinez

    • john poitras says:

      Joey you excuse my french are FULL OF CRAP ON CARES.
      NO ONE in Burien asked to have CARES take over from King County … This was ENTIRELY MIKE MARTINS DOING. Where on earth do you get your information from?

      • Lee Moyer says:

        Yeah, Mike Martin probably forged the City Council’s approval and all the volunteers who worked on CARES probably wern’t volunteers, Mike was hiding behind a curtain with a gun forcing them to pretend to support CARES.
        I too have been frustrated by the unresponsiveness of our manager and our council, but these personal attacks on Mike Martin are getting very tiresome and distract from the actual issues.

        • William Forest says:

          Unfortunately for your comment lacks weight because most of the ACTUAL ISSUES are in fact as a result of Mike Martin’s actions or lack of actions.

  4. Eaton B. Verz says:

    Boy are we getting off topic! I use the anominity of the blog to protect myself from potential wackos who insist on looking up voter registration records and who knows what else when I post something they don’t like. I would hope their time would be better spent but there are always the Ted Bundys out there.

    Sorry Joey but I’m not a total idiot. I have spoken to council members in person. Present circimstances prevent me from doing so now. I do know how to communicate with the city. I DO vote. In fact I actually voted for you in the primary. It was a “send a message ” vote. I was REAL disappointed when you waffled on annexation late in the game. I had hopes that you weren’t a “Typical politician” Oh well. Eaton

    • TcB says:

      You should stop asking to be convinced “otherwise”. It’s not honest. We have different opinions and we would be best to put those forth as our positions. I am not going to change my opinion. Neither are you.

      • Eaton B. Verz says:

        Isn’t that what Joey is trying to do? Convince people that annexation is the right thing to do?? Plus I didn’t ask him to convince me, I just stated that his posts hadn’t changed my mind.. Eaton

      • Mike says:

        Joey offered to try to convince me and others that annexation is good. So far I’m convinced that it’s not good from everything I’ve read. Many people get on here and try to poo poo the anti annex people yet present nothing to rebut what’s said. They seem to just disappear (Lutz) when asked for facts. And by the way tcb it is honest to say try to convince me. I’m not convinced. Maybe the whole annexation thing is just not “Honest”. That seems to be more likely the case.

        • Neil Smith says:

          Mike Perception is a funny thing. I guess how you look at things determines what you perceive. You stated that Lutz did not come up with any facts and then disapeared. On this blog he corrected the false statements that Cares was the same cost as King County Animal Control. I went to the blog he referred to and Ralph Nichols story on April 11, 2011 stated that King County Animal Control wanted 300,000.00 for one part time person compared to $120,000.00 per year for cares. When Lutz asked Debi to respond, she had nothing to say. Neither did cover of night or John.
          So I guess we all look at things differently and we are not going to be swayed one way or the other by what is written on the blog.

          • Mike says:

            Neil, your response is right on. However, many questions have gone unanswered. It leads me to believe the questions are answered by the people who bring them forth. I can be swayed with clear facts. As far as CARES goes, it appears there are many unhappy residents. I’ve seen too many complaints about them not having capacity, lack of personel, and the city manager stating he was okay with euthanizing the animals. As a pet owner, I’ve had interaction with KC animal control. They worked with me to come come up with a solution for my animals. They were very professional. I don’t want a cheaper way to go when it comes to my dogs. I want compassion.

            Area Y Mike

          • john poitras says:

            Neil apparently you cannot read or are just myopic.. I DID respond and I did the research .. Apparently YOU did not.. You just took what you selectively read on the blog and ASSUMED it was the truth.. I did the research and I know the truth regardless of your false propaganda. I spoke to the horses mouth about the current contract offer and I reviewed the CARES contract . Obviously you did not because its much easier when the facts are INCONVENIENT to you your point of view.

    • Joey Martinez says:

      Eaton, more power to you! Even though I was speaking to you I was directing part of that to everyone. I was hoping to empower at least one person with what I was saying.

      My letters haven’t been to change someone’s position, necessarily, but to show the readers my thought process.

      I filed about 5 minutes after reading a story on the B-Town Blog about filing for office. Literally, 5 minutes. It’s a long story but it comes down to having a house fire, being given so much by the community – including total strangers, feeling lost personally, and seeing that big bright light as I read that story.

      When asked about annexation I said something to the effect that I was opposed to annexation at that time. I read every single document available, crunched my own numbers, spoke to leaders, spoke to subject matter experts, as well as citizens of the areas (mostly Burien when I was door knocking).

      I took a stong position before the end of June and have stuck by it every since. That positon being that Annexation is GREAT for Burien and REALLY, REALLY good for North Highline.

      Joey Martinez

      • john poitras says:

        Your NUMBERS don’t add up Joey .. No matter how you CRUNCH them or snack on them. LOL
        Thats the real issue here. If you have not got this message by now you never will.

      • William Forest says:

        I totally disagree with you because the TRUTH is that Annexation is BAD for Burien and even worse for North Highline.
        If you look past the barking snarling and pro annexation propaganda which you are also a mouthpiece of, any objective person with a lick of common sense would come to the conclusion that annexation is a really bad idea.
        You have claimed before that you spoke to “thousands” of people in Burien (obviously a huge exaggeration) and the vast majority were for annexation.

        Joey I am calling you on this and I offer this as proof. A sitting council member who was as upfront and gung ho vocal about annexation as you could get was thrown out of office by a large majority by his ANTI-Annexation opponent who ran on a shoe string budget and not all the fund raisers by several members of the council and others like you who campaigned for him could save his seat on the council

        Jerry Robison only got elected for two reasons.. He was VERY LOW KEY about his pro annexation stance .. it did not appear on ANY of his campaign literature and a lot of people confused him with Jerry Robinson of the Highline times..

        I canvassed for Bob Edgar and I can truthfully report that 95% of the residents I spoke with were strongly AGAINST annexation.

        THATS THE REALITY JOEY and all your revisionist history pontification will not change the facts or that 3000 residents signed a petition against annexation.

        • Joey Martinez says:

          William, we have a difference of opinion on annexation. That is plainly clear. I stand my my analysis of the totality of each report, taking into consideration the circumstances they were written for. I refuse to use part of one report, coupled with a part of another report and present them as the entire fact and use them as evidence while ignoring parts that don’t fit my argument.

          William you also mis-quote me. I said, on the record, that as I was out on my campaign talking to folks (both registered voters and non-voters) about their problems the vast majority (70%) never once brought up annexation. Their concerns were neighborhood related. Most also thought that annexation had already taken place when I did ask them directly

          Another thing you forget to mention is that I also filed against Gordon Shaw, and I campaigned against Shaw during the primary because I too felt it was his time to go.

          And there is no possiblity that Robison won because people felt he was the better candidate? If what you say is true, why were you not also canvassing for Mrs Wagner at the same time informing the people of your truth?

          Now it’s 3,000 people that signed a petition? Last I heard it was 2,000. I just listened to the council meeting where Mrs Edgar said it was 2,000.

          Joey Martinez

          • William Forest says:

            WHAT REPORTS JOEY? Care to share? What REPORTS? That’s plural Joey..
            Being a technocrat AND a bureaucrat you must have memorized them by now.
            I assume you are referring to the incomplete contradictory and non-totality Berk Report that Mike Martin claims is a business plan? What PARTS of what other REPORTS are you apparently claiming I am ignoring and using as evidence?

            Btw what commission were you recently appointed to as a result of your pushing the Martin ,Clark, Robison and McGilton pro-annexation party line?

            Joey you are flat out lying when you claim you never said publicly that the vast majority of the thousands of residents you canvassed were for annexation. I personally heard you make this claim at the second city council candidates debate and so did others. Are you recanting now?

            You felt it was Shaw’s time to go did you Joey.. ??
            Well when you got the least amount of votes in the primary and did everything you could to scuttle Bob Edgars victory now you are claiming that you were against Shaw all along? Well Joey revisionist pontificating is the same as lying and you DID campaign for Gordon Shaw and by your own admission on this blog monetarily contributed to his campaign.

            Actually no I did not canvass for Debi Wagner although I would have if I had been asked. Yes obviously the NHUAC PAC was out canvassing for Jerry R and managed to convince some people he was the better candidate and obviously some people would have voted for him anyway.. What I stated was imo the two major factors that enabled him to win.. not get a few votes he would have got anyway.. He like the greasy lawyer he is,underplayed his pro annexation stance,by not even mentioning it on his web site or on his campaign literature and the confusing similarity to Jerry Robinson’s name of the Highline times are the two over riding factors that gave him his ten percent victory over Debi.
            I did not mention that fact that Debi did not even have a shoe string budget and her campaign literature for some reason was not mailed out or delivered to voters with the voting pamphlets like everyone else’s in the race. These stated facts are the main reason Jerry won. I stand by this statement and know in my head and heart for it to be the truth.

            Frankly I can’t remember if it was 2000 or 3000 people that signed the petition I thought it was 3,000 but it was thousands.. that’s the point Joey … which you are trying to gloss over and selectively fail to address because it does not fit in with your rhetoric.

          • Joey Martinez says:

            The BERK report is one example: First you say it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on and wouldn’t use it for Toilet Paper (my interpretation of what you say about it,)

            Then you find one thing you like about it: That it speaks to an over 20% structural deficit leaving us in the “red” and shout it from the roof tops (again my interpretation). You selectively forget to mention the report says, in the same section, that this is true whether annexation happens or not. Selective, and is something the anti-annexation champions have done for every report done on annexation. I could write entire articles on that subject, but it would defeat the purpose of why I am writing on this blog.

            It’s a shame that the candidates forum wasn’t recorded, because I know what I said. It just shows how you remember what you want. I will again state that I said that the vast majority never brought up annexation until prompted. Other concerns like neighborhood issues, were the concern.

            The Burien council is an non-partison race, however, if it WERE a partisan race the voters would have seen and had a choice of “Gordon Shaw (R)”, “Bob Edgar (D)”, or “Joey Martinez (D)” in the primary.

            What does that say to you? I tried to help get a Republican back into office(!) that is what!!! Chew on that for a minute and think of what that says and means of my opinion of Mr Edgar for office.

            Mr’s Wagner was endorsed by the 34th district democrats and the campaign piece was supposed to be mailed by them. At the last minute they decided not to mail them out. The “why” is a question for them.

            I am also not glossing over the number who signed a petition. That is an impressive number out of over 22,000 voters in a city.

            I have been approached by no less than 5 people that said they felt pressured into signing that form and wish they could remove it for many reasons – mostly because they were tired of the drama. I won’t say who they are but I invite them to speak if they feel up to it.

            Joey Martinez

    • Lee Moyer says:

      I support annexation and appreciate your information and the fact that you openly stand behind what you say.
      You won’t find E B V in voter registration because it is a fake name evidently designed to impress middle school boys as a risque joke. It may be a clue to the intellectual capability of E B V as well.

  5. Ghost of Maplewild says:

    We now have the “FAQ’s” . When are the meetings? So we ALL can attend.

  6. William Forest says:

    Joey.. you said REPORT’s … thats PLURAL that you crunched the numbers on .. what REPORTS other than the Berk Report which is referred to in the FAQ’s as a “financial analysis” NOT a business plan as Mr Martin has stated are you referring to?

    Since you are not willing to admit what I heard or infer that I misheard what you said then in response to the statement you just made and I quote:

    “I will again state that I said that the vast majority never brought up annexation until prompted.”

    What are you claiming the majority of the reactions were to annexation when as you say “prompted”?

    As far as your claim that no less than 5 people have indicated to you that they signed it and felt pressured into it…. even if that’s true that still leaves about 2000 or 3000 Burien residents that signed a petition AGAINST ANNEXATION. That’s the reality Joey and all your spinning in the Joey zone will not change that fact and what that indicates.
    And jic you don’t know this surveys indicate that people who will sign on to a petition usually vote in elections.

    • Joey Martinez says:

      Fire: saying that if we absorb Fire District 11 we would be responsible for questionable retirement payouts (This is true) while not talking to the fact that we’d need to build another fire house to cover the Shorewood area if Fire district 11 were to be absorbed by Seattle. That sounds expensive too.

      Water: talking about the NESBIT report and the interlocal agreement that would have current water systems continue to serve North Highine. Not bringing up the fact that SPU will cut, transfer, and absorb that infrastructure in the future.

      Capital improvement projects (CIP): saying there is $43, or $77 or $93 million needed upgrades and repairs and making it sound like we need to pay for it day one. Avoiding the fact that while our CIP, when combined with the potential CIP of North Highline , would be higher than our Highline neighbors the per capita costs (meaning the share per person) is still on par with our neighbor cities.

      The projects will be evaluated, prioritized, and put in the queue.

      Furthermore, you don’t bring up the fact that as a Regional Growth Center (RGC) we are eligible for extra funding for our CIP. As an RGC, this year alone, we have already gotten millions in CIP funding with millions more being highly likely next year.

      Want more?

      Of those who I talked to:

      Before being prompted:
      10% for annexation
      15% against
      70% neighborhood issue (parks, sidewalks, graffiti, speeding)
      5% no answer.

      After bringing up annexation and giving my 30 seconds on it :
      25% thought we already did
      50% didn’t care/didn’t have an opinion
      10% were still for it
      15% were still against

      I already said that 2,000 signatures was impressive. When was that collected and is that the same roster used by the Annexation Evaluation committee and its membership?

      Joey Martinez

      • William Forest says:

        Thanks for you response Joey.. Imo your “Number Crunching” still does not add up to the pro-annexation position you keep pushing,in fact by my reckoning it shows the exact opposite.

        Lets take your points one by one.

        Fire District 11… No real numbers to crunch there Joey according to what you are saying we are either in the red for questionable retirement payouts.. and that’s for sure if annexation goes through.. Where is that money going to come from?

        If annexation is rejected by area Y voters then it reverts back to King County and there would be NO ADDITIONAL EXPENSE. No harm no foul. That’s the sound fiscal decision by rejecting annexation for Burien and Area Y. and letting it stay the way it is now.
        IF Annexation is rejected and IF Seattle decides to try and annex and IF area X voters approve it, then we MAY have to build another firehouse and we might not .. that would need to be negotiated by Seattle first in order for the Boundary Review board to approve it and I hope the city manager would do his job and negotiate a good deal for Burien since he would hold all the cards if Seattle was serious about annexation.

        Sounds like a lot of IF’s to me and you apparently forgot the second scenario which has no fiscal downside to Burien.

        Next >> Water services.. it seems like a (pardon my pun) a WASH to me so again I fail to see how that affects your number crunching in favor of annexation.

        Next>> CIP or Capitol improvement projects for Area X whose infrastructure is badly in need of repair and will most likely take priority over infrastructure needs in the current city of Burien, which although in need of upgrade and repair, will probably be put off and deprioritised to work on the areas in Area Y which are in more desperate need of repair and maintenance. (I am working on my we site project detailing images of roads and sidewalks in Burien badly in need of repair btw).

        You cite the fact that the per capita cost is on par with our neighboring cities without adding into your number crunching formula the fact that the per capita revenue of Area Y is already in the red or negative requiring a tax credit that has no guarantee of lasting more than the current State Budget cycle and is subject to cancellation at any time.
        Obviously it does not need to be done on day one if annexation is approved because its not physically possible besides not being fiscally possible.

        You state we have already got millions in CIP funding because we are an RGC.. Where did that money go Joey? If you know I would be interested in hearing where Mike Martin spent it. I hope it was not put into the general fund so it could help pay off the multi million dollar lawsuit from the fiasco of his First Avenue Road repair project?

        Want more? Yes Joey I want more because in fact the numbers you are crunching here should lead you to the conclusion that annexation is a really bad idea both for Burien AND for Area Y white center.

        As far as your canvassing of residents about annexation (was it thousands or hundreds Joey you have never clarified that since I questioned it)

        I had much much different results than you >>>( perhaps because I did not give them 30 seconds of propaganda on it before receiving an answer?) I simply asked them.
        I can truthfully say that at least 95% of the people I asked were against it and 75% were adamantly against it.

        I will agree that at least half of the hundreds of people I spoke with did not know about Martins plan to annex area Y and the majority of the people thought that Burien residents would get to vote on it. They were shocked when I told them no they did not get a vote and that a state law dictates that decision be made by the area to be annexed and that the decision to annex is in the hands of their city council.

        Perhaps that’s why Gordon Shaw with all his money and all his campaign signs (which were everywhere), because he ,unlike Robison was honest enough to state unequivocally that he was for annexation; got soundly defeated by a candidate with very few signs, very few people working for him and very little campaign money.

        • Ghost of Maplewild says:

          Mr. Forest,

          I look forward to your web site. I have NUMEROUS suggestions for it. Here is just one:

          We the taxpayers of Burien built the City a new City hall. A crystal cathedral that from which they can look down upon the current citizens of Burien.
          What about the OLD city hall bldg?? Siting vacant and being a eyesore for years.

  7. Joey Martinez says:

    William, we could do this forever you and I. We both think we’re right and we are both playing “What if”‘ by each others word. It is my belief that by annexing North Highline we control our own path and future and that is the type of person I am. I’d rather not let North Highline and Seattle dictact what might happen with our fire department, as one example. You believe otherwise and are seeking to show that yourself.

    Honestly, it no longer matters what you and I think as Burien residents. It matters what Joe and Jane voter believe and vote this November. To that end… GAME ON! (and no it’s not a game to me) 😉

    Joey Martinez

    • William Forest says:

      Joey >>>so you were blowing smoke when you said when analyzed a number of reports and when you CRUNCHED THE NUMBERS that Annexation was the clear winner and that’s why you supported it?

      I questioned your NUMBER CRUNCHING and your math and asked you to explain. You clearly failed to do so and now I am even more convinced both Burien and Area Y would clearly be better off if Area Y rejected annexation by Burien and remained with King County (the status-quo).
      You also failed to mention that the residents of area Y have this option and also the option to reject any annexation attempt by Seattle and remain with King County.

      Frankly if I lived in Area Y, I would NOT want to be annexed by Burien a city that can barely cover its own expenses when in fact it really needs more cops on the beat and other capitol improvements not to mention better animal control services like those being offered to Area Y by King County. If you doubt this then speak to some of your buddies on the NHUAC who had King County Animal control come in and speak at the last meeting. and see what they thought. It might dispel some of the false innuendo’s and claims about CARES and King County Animal Control I have read on this blog.

      If I lived in Area Y I don’t know if I would want to be annexed by Seattle either.. I cannot make an objective judgement because Seattle has not said what they would be willing to offer except in a cost analysis done some years ago and the economy has gotten worse since then.

      Btw there are no firm proposals on the table about what would happen with our fire dept. if Seattle annexed and its so far down the road its irrelevant so I think your fears are not only unfounded they are fear mongering. I would be a lot more concerned about how Burien is going to pay for Area Y if the tax credit goes away before the hoped for period ends because it could evaporate at any time.

      There are no What Ifs in my request for a confirmation of how your number crunching leads you to believe that annexation of area Y by Burien is a sound fiscal decision and you failed to back up your claims so I assume you cannot.

      All I know is that unless I was a betting man and saw the glass more than half full, if I lived in area Y and was risk averse then I would reject annexation by Burien because of all the unknown factors that come into play and the very possible scenario it could result in fiscal disaster.. IT IS MUCH SAFER FOR AREA Y TO SAY NO TO ANNEXATION AND STICK WITH KING COUNTY!

      • Joey Martinez says:

        The subtle hint didn’t work so here is the sledge hammer approach.

        William, what are you gaining with comments? What do I gain? Put it in a letter like I have and be sure to use your real name.

        In due time I will get to the fire department portion of my analysis, just like I did with the police portion – a portion you’ve not commented on, by the way. Why would I want to waste my information on a comment?

        Joey Martinez

        • john poitras says:

          It looks to me like you have wasted a lot of your time on comments you can’t back up Joey.

          I agree why waste your time making comments that have no value?

          • Debi Wagner says:

            I feel I should weigh in because I’ve crunched the numbers and Joey, it truly is a deficit for Burien if we annex area Y. There is no doubt because the numbers are a solid fact based in objective totals. You say the CIP can wait but Mike Martin said at the Glen Acres meeting that it has to be done soon because it will be more costly with time. You said the Berk report is a business plan but it is not because it doesn’t say how the CIP will ever be funded or plan for it. Berk is not complete. But they have excused themselves from culpability by presenting as a draft to BRB. It is missing the CIP and SWM 10 million dollar immediate need in the budget analysis. You say you will talk about the fire department who will be 2 million short if annexation is approved. When you talk about the future of the area to plan, this is not a valid reason to annex if there are tens of millions missing to maintain, fix and support.

  8. William Forest says:

    Joey you ask what am I gaining from my comments? I think you should ask yourself that question because as a self proclaimed Technocrat and Geek your data mining skills are sadly lacking. I called you on your number crunching analysis and you failed to deliver with a cogent response and did not respond to the discrepancies in your “numbers” I pointed out.
    I guess I should ask myself why am I wasting my time responding to your comments if you are unwilling or (more likely) unwilling to pony up. This puts your claims in the area of propaganda because what you have hacked out so far totally fails the smell test.

    Btw on the fire dept, you already made claims in your previous post on this thread, I just counter punched and put holes in them you could not fill because your number crunching added up to a spurious conclusion.

    On police services I am happy to respond to any fuzzy analysis you care to present. I have made my views quite clear on police services. We don’t have enough in Burien now and annexation will just stretch our police even further and make matters worse. On police Seattle definitely offers a better deal for north highline but rejecting annexation and sticking with the status quo (King County) is still better for North Highline.

    Feel free not to respond, I understand, its hard to pirouette when the ground you are dancing on is like quicksand.

  9. Local Yocal says:

    In a perfect world, portions of the North Highline Annexation Area would be best served by allowing to self govern. As a local ‘yocal’ for over 50 years I’ve seen many attempts to stimulate, revive, police and govern – none of which truly address the uniqueness of White Center. I fear that while the annexation into Burien may allow the area to receive much needed attention with additional services and more of a voice in government, it will continue to be a step-child to any governing City – never allowing it to achieve it’s full potential. Better than it’s current status under the county of ‘long lost relative twice removed”, in ‘no man’s’ land of unincorporated King – Yes.
    As it should or could be – No

    Certainly there are areas of the North section that are closely aligned with the current City of Burien. Yet the White Center “core” is not. It needs a system of self governance that alls it to address the richness of it’s diversity and allows it to ‘be all that it can be’. I’ve watched the stability and sense of pride that the Greenbridge project has brought to the area ~ how will incorporation into the City of Burien allow that same sense of energy to address the infastructure and economic needs of the business core? White Center needs to be able to fledge on it’s own, with it’s own system of self governance that addresses and responds to it’s specific needs.

    At the root of the issue is, as it always is, the sheer practicicality of funding. Viable on it’s own now – most likely not. It would take the endowment of a well heeled source such as that behind Greenbridge or the High Point development in West Seattle. The need is there as are the rewards if the area is allowed to become all that it can. While the annexation into Burien will provide some additional and continuing tax benefits to the City & is probably a step in the right direction towards addressing the areas needs, it is my contention that it’s not what is really needed. The step child will remain a step child albeit with a new set of parents ~ the job will remain the same – to allow it to develop to it’s true potential.

    If only we lived in a perfect world when funding allowed us to be all that we can be…

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