Citizens Say CARES Often Doesn’t Care, but City Manager Retains His Confidence

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by Jack Mayne

After a couple of months of calm, now suddenly aggrieved Burien animal lovers are again eyeing the warpath against the Community Animal Resource & Education Society – better known as CARES – because of what they say is poor public interaction and a lack of understanding of rules and standards of caring for lost, strayed and abandoned dogs and cats.

For weeks the charges and claims lay dormant as several of the opponents of CARES said it was no use criticizing the facility as long as a majority of the Burien City Council backed City Manager Mike Martin.

CARES Executive Director Debra George.

It was Martin who instigated the change from King County Animal Control to the fledgling non-profit run by The Mark restaurant manager Debra George. The change was made, he said, to save money and he told The B-Town Blog in an e-mail Wednesday that he remains confident in CARES’ work.

Sick kitten
The latest barrage of comment came after a letter published on The B-Town Blog from longtime CARES critic Marianne Hudson (read the full letter here):

“About two weeks ago I went to one of our foster homes to pick up kittens. … The foster mom was clearly upset. She had taken a very sick kitten from CARES the evening before for fostering. CARES told her it might die. Well, it did. I offered to take it to CARES … since the foster mom was upset and I was going that way.

“Once at CARES, I was informed coldly, that the foster mom knew it might die (correct). I am left wondering why a dying kitten was not euthanized or fostered by a CARES employee rather than being given to a brand new foster home. I then asked if CARES would follow up to see if there were other kittens or a feral mom cat to be trapped. The woman I spoke with immediately said that such work is not in their contract.”

City Manager Martin says he doesn’t know about this or other negative charges against CARES, or whether they are true, but “we deal with specific allegations as we receive them.” He also says he would not expect rudeness “from any contractor.”

No response
Several people have charged that shelter staff is not responding to citizen requests. One such comment was posted on Craigslist this past week.

“Deceased female pit bull was found. … She was hit by a car Friday or Saturday, and animal control did not pick her up despite a call from neighbors.”

Another pit bull case came from an interview by The B-Town Blog with Shre’e Robinson and her friend Dan (who asked his last name not be used) saying they had “ongoing issues” with their next door neighbor.

“They have a beautiful pit bull that is … really a lovable dog,” Shre’e Robinson said. “I’ve seen him beating her with the metal end of a hose because she defecated on the patio.

“First I called the police,” she said, but was told by the dispatcher she had to call CARES.

“I called CARES and they pretty much blew me off. I have left reports and pretty much never heard anything.”

George said for her group “to effectively investigate, we will not comment on active cases of animal abuse.”

A few weeks later a woman walking a dog by the house appeared to have alerted the pit bull that was very protective of his owner’s children. The pit bull’s “owner suddenly ran out to their dog, picked it up and threw it down on the street,” said Dan.

“He throws her down and has got her pinned. His arm comes up and he is waling away at her. I didn’t see her (the dog) but I could see his action and it was like four or five punches. That night on the deck she was limping badly with her right rear foot being held up in the air.”

Robinson said they called CARES Saturday night and left a voice mail.

“CARES finally called me Tuesday,” said Robinson. “As far as I can tell, absolutely nothing was done. Quite frankly, we refer to them as CARE-less.”

‘Doesn’t cut it’
As Vicky Hurley noted in a comment published June 16 in the B-Town Blog:

“It is clear that immediate response is a vital element. Many people have commented on how they have called and called CARES and received no response. If you have to go to work and there is a large dog you have never seen before hanging around your door, growling when you try to leave your house, ‘Thank you for calling….’ doesn’t cut it.

Pamela Staeheli and Marianne Hudson both work predominantly with feral cats, cats once domesticated but now living in a wild state. But they come across friendly cats, too, on occasion.

They used to take the domesticated cats to King County’s Kent shelter when it was the animal control facility for Burien. They can’t do that anymore, both said in an interview.

“CARES doesn’t have the room to take it, nor will they take it, or at least they haven’t from the people I have specifically talked with,” says Staeheli.

She must find people living in areas under contract to King County to take her cats to the county shelter. The two women question CARES who continually say animals are in foster care.

“Foster homes are extremely difficult to come by,” she said. “Maryann and I have been in the business for almost 20 years and I can count on one hand five fosters.

“I can’t imagine CARES having any more than I have got,” Staeheli said. “They haven’t said how many fosters they have. All the other big shelters do – they disclose anything concerning foster care.”

George counters that CARES has “over 15 active foster families that handle our ‘special needs’ animals – animals that need medications (because they) are overly stressed or need one-on-one care.”

Doesn’t trust CARES
Before Burien ended its contract with King County, both Staeheli and Hudson said they worked well with the county shelter in Kent. They could take feral cats there and get other services no longer available to them.

“I’m scared to use CARES, frankly, because I don’t trust them,” Hudson said. “They are flying by the seat of their pants. There is a bunch of people down there with no experience. They don’t know what they are doing. For our most vulnerable, a government agency taking care of them need to be professionals.”

When asked what they would do about the contract between CARES and the City of Burien, Hudson said she believes the contract has been violated many times already and could be terminated under provisions in the document.

“I blame Debra George for not becoming more knowledgeable,” said Staeheli. “She has had a year to learn things.

The two were critical of the CARES process of taking each incoming animal to a private veterinarian. They and others suggest the organization’s staff can be easily trained to do vaccines, de-worming and taking blood from kittens.

“You can get combo tests for $15 tops – you know how much it costs to take (animals) into a veterinarian? Up to $50 for a combo test.”

Or, they could bring in a vet periodically once or so a week rather than take staff time to take each animal to a doctor one at a time, she and others said.

“We do use local vets to check all our animals,” George said. “We do have a mobile vet that comes to the shelter twice a month to offer low cost vaccinations to the residents of Burien and our shelter.”

CARES Executive Director Debra George shows the facility’s ‘Cat Condos’ to Senior Reporter Jack Mayne during a tour last spring. Photo by Scott Schaefer.

Many citizens suggest the shelter was not built to specifications that give the animals room to move, cats to play and also protect animals from catching diseases.

The cat condos are the right size and one expert said they were well designed because they have multiple decks so cats can jump and also hide. But the pressed wood is criticized even though coated with plastic to be waterproof, because cats scratch surfaces, which can be breeding places for communicable diseases.

Most experts, such as the University of California at Davis’s Veterinary Medicine Koret Shelter Medicine Program, suggest stainless steel cages like those used by King County, but those are expensive. (see

But CARES’ George says the cats “love” the Burien shelter’s condos.

“Our cat condos were approved by the King County Health Department and are kept in very clean and orderly shape.”

CARES Contract
Staeheli and Hudson en believe the contract with CARES has been violated many times.

“They are not following it at all,” Hudson said pointing to a copy of the contract document.

“They could cancel the contract if (City Manager) Mike Martin wanted to, but he won’t,” said Staeheli. “We are stuck until a new election.”

George said CARES gives “every animal an opportunity for life: we do not euthanize just because an animal may not live” and that they “keep all animals until they are adopted out.”

When the agency has to euthanize, George said it was only for serious medical reasons or if the animal is overly aggressive and is done only when a veterinarian, the animal control officer and George all agree that it is necessary.

The contract says, as most such documents do, that it can be cancelled because of “failure to comply with conditions” provided the contract holder has time to fix any deficiencies.

Even after citizen complaints, Martin says he remains confident in CARES and would not recommend returning to King County at the expiration of its contract.

“The current contract with CARES is $120,000 (per) year. The most recent proposal from King County is $341,725 (per) year for a lower level of service – so it’s $220,000 (per) year more expensive. Paying a government agency more than a non-profit, community based agency for a lower level of service doesn’t make sense.”

The contract also states that the city can cancel “for public convenience. The City may terminate this contract in whole or in part whenever the City determines in its sole discretion that such termination is in the interests of the City.”

The contract also requires “the city and the contractor shall review service levels and terms of this contract … periodically … .”

Martin says that is going to happen. Denise McVicker, deputy executive director for Human Society for Tacoma and Pierce County, will do the review during February 2013.

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26 Responses to “Citizens Say CARES Often Doesn’t Care, but City Manager Retains His Confidence”
  1. TcB says:

    I have never been to check out conditions, but the question I ask to the vocal minority complaining about this is, are you ready to pay for the significantly higher costs that were initially rejected when King County foisted this change upon us in the first place? I Have never called CARES for any reason, so I don’t have any experience in speaking about how people are treated or how the service is, I only know that the cost difference is very large.

    • btowngurl says:

      Actually its not going to cost more, city of seatac pays about $115,000 CARES right now is $120,000 annual. This was brought up a few months ago in the highline times. So going with RASKC is cheaper,better service and humane care for the pets being sheltered. And of course trained professionals verses a bar co owner and a dude who went to two weeks of training. RASKC has Officers who have been doing animal control and care for years and are constantly looking to UC davis for up todate sheltering medicine.

      • raven says:

        I was just at RASKC’s shelter in Kent–and a citizen of Burien was there with her cat. She is getting evicted and CARES would not take her cat because they are “full”, they told her to come to RASKC! I was just at CARES, and there were several empty cat cages…this is a common issue, according to the staff that was working at the office in the RASKC shelter. Several times a week, they said, Burien residents come to the RASKC shelter because CARES refuses to take their healty, adoptable animals AND refuses to take in stray cats.

  2. Feralcat says:

    HOW IN THE HELL can mike martin NOT know about the negative stuff. Many people have stood up in PUBLIC council meetings and people have said they have sent emails and letters. That is all a matter of public record. Wow talk about straight out LYING.

    “We do have a mobile vet that comes to the shelter twice a month to offer low cost vaccinations to the residents of Burien and our shelter.”

    UM Debra, we are talking about the animals in YOUR SHELTER, not for the citizens. DUH, that is what this article is about.

    I do hope that Denise McVicker will see just how horrible this place is and is willing to step up and say so.


  3. TcB says:

    So Seatac has about 28,000 people and Burien has about 45,000 and the costs will be the same?

  4. Fred says:

    Denise McVicker/CARES auditor is another bogus hire by Mike Martin. Ms. Vicker runs an animal shelter and has nothing to do with animal control. Look her up on the internet and check her job description. So we are going to have someone who knows nothing about animal control come in and evaluate CARES, which does animal control. This is just like all of the other bogus contracts Martin writes. He hires someone who promises him the answers/findings that he wants even before they have come in to look over the situation. It will be another sham report like we always get from him.

    When Councilman Edgar asked for input into the questions and things that would be looked at by McVicker, Martin told him the contract had already been written by staff so the Council wouldn’t be able to have any input. Martin could not explain how this woman had been selected to do this audit. As usual he mumbled around avoiding the answer. The Council never selected this woman and only recently were even told her name.

    About a month ago, some stray cats were found outside the Dollar Store area and again CARES would have nothing to do with them. So if they don’t take stray cats or animals other than dogs, don’t take care of animals disturbing the peace and don’t take care of abuse cases, what the Heck do they really do? Many of the dogs that came from the hoarder case went to George’s friends. So is this a non profit to get George’s friends dogs? CARES does not answer the phone and does not follow up on calls. We have never seen a financial report of the total time that CARES has been in operation. They hide their information which as a non profit is supposed to be available to the public. Their animal control officer is inappropiate, rude and loud when he goes into vets offices here in town. He lacks adequate training for the job and public relations skills.CARES has a couple of huge outstanding bills with a couple of private vets here in town which they are paying with by credit cards and public money is financing the high interest payments on these credit card debts.

    The King County Health Department openly admits the cat condos are a problem if the surface gets even one scratch in the painted surfaces. The scratched area can’t be adequately disinfected and has to be refinished. The refinishing paint is so toxic in content and fumes it presents health isues for the cats. Having been in CARES after their paint job, it made me want to vomit from the fumes.

    The ownership of the Mark Resturant is intimately involved with Debra George in this enterprise as is Fireweed Beads across the street. The owner of the bead shop is a member of the CARES Board. Money talks. If you have serious concerns about how CARES is being run and managed, I encourage you to stop doing business with the Mark Restuarant and Fireweed Beads and tell them why you will not be using their services in the future.

    Mike Martin’s evaluation is coming up. Now is the time to send an email to the Council and tell them not to renew Mr. Martin’s contract. CARES is just one of the many items he has been an inadequate manager about.

    Almost everyone I know refuses to turn animals over to CARES. It stinks in there on some days. The cages are not adequate. Animals that are brought in are co-mingled with healthy animals before they are checked by a vet. Animals’ pictures and personal details are posted on web sites violating the protection they should have. Over 50% of the animals that were turned into CARES can’t be accounted for. What really happened to them? CARES is a poor shelter and an inadequate animal control and has none of the education components it promised the citizens and Council it would have. There are at least 4 gutless members on the Council who refuse to seriously look at or even openly discuss citizen concerns about CARES. CARES has violated its contract on several occasions and the contract should have been terminated. Mayor Bennett campaigned for office on the fact that he was an animal rights advocate but he has lacked a backbone on the issue of CARES.

    Jack Mayne has hear numerous reports from citizens about how bad CARES is as a shelter and an animal control. I wish his article had brought some of that detail out. It needs to come out.

  5. ACO Ray Helms says:

    Fred, Really? Where do you make up this stuff. First of all I have been asked not to reply to comments by my board. So I’m not a model employee; sue me. Fred you have never been in the CARES facility. It stinks? Cages are inadequate? Come in and show me how you think you can improve upon what we’re already doing. Yes we have bills, but using a credit card? I wish I had a credit card. You call me inappropriate, loud (that’s my favorite) and rude with poor public relation skills. I’m sorry princess but it is apparent you have never met me. The reason the council isn’t all up in arms is because almost all of them have been at the facility and realizes not only are we following the contract but we have gone beyond and growing with each passing day. I encourage anyone to come on down and see the facility for themselves and meet the loud me.

    • Btowngirl says:

      So if CARES is turning people away with stray cats and owner surrender what’s the point of having them? And they don’t deal with barking dogs. I would suggest people don’t buy cats licenses since cat owners will not get the service their license pays for.

    • Eaton B. Verz says:

      Roy, I’ve met you and interacted with you. You came across to me as someones’ moronic ,angry, worthless brother in law, who figured it was easier to give you a job than put up with you hanging around their house. Then I listened to your words at the city council meeting regarding CARES report to the city. I was right!!! “Stray cats? NOT IN MY HOUSE!!” Remember that? You don’t give two sh*ts about the animals. I believe you like to play bigshot. Your THE ACO in this town and we all better remember that! You should take your “contract” and put it where the sun doesn’t shine! Just my humble opinion. Regards, Eaton …I’m OUT!

    • Joe Wills says:

      No Ray Really!! You call yourself and ACO now that’s a joke! I and my wife have been in the CARES facility and yes it does stink! And Yes I have met you and it is more than apparent that if it weren’t for Debra George, you would have a job in animal control. You have NO experience, you don’t know how to handle the animals, nr can you evaluate temperament or even breed type. You are nothing but a loud mouthed punk! So attacking Fred just shows your true ignorance! The whole cares facility is a joke; you just don’t know it because you listen to Debra “I have no clue” George. You know the council is divided on the issue of CARES, unfortunately the ratio in in your favor at this time. BUT I guarantee next election, things are going to change. So you had better sharpen your skills at making Fries, because the new council will get rid of CARES and go with a real ANIMAL CONTROL organization called RASCK.

  6. Ghost of Maplewild says:

    If it looks Like a duck and quacks like a duck…

    “You call me inappropriate, loud (that’s my favorite) and rude with poor public relation skills. I’m sorry princess”


  7. TcB says:

    I’m no expert on CARES but it seems that that there’s a concerted effort and propaganda machine going on here much like some other issues at hand. I wonder….

    • Eaton B. Verz says:

      You obviously have had no dealings with CARES.

      • TcB says:

        I have not. The stories presented here, if true, do cast a negative light. The question is, will I have to pay higher taxes? Taxes are, after all, GOD.

        • Hotrodgal says:

          Yes, you will have to pay higher taxes…it’s a given. You do live in Burien, right?
          It’s not a matter of higher taxes. You will have to pay those no matter what.

          It’s actually a matter of value.
          The citizens of Burien desearve to get what they pay for.
          With CARES they do not. With RASKC they do.

  8. Smokey says:

    A pit bull was apparently hit by a car and killed near 148th and 8th Ave South. Citizens called CARES for two days while this dog lay on the side of the road. Finally, one kind citizen took it upon herself to pick up the poor dog, take her to a vet to be scanned for a microchip, and place a craigslist ad just in case an owner was looking for this poor girl. Ray Helms, why didn’t you take care of this dog?

    Burien citizens are learning not to rely on CARES. They call each other, call on other local nonprofits, and take care of things themselves because they know they can’t trust CARES.

  9. huh? says:

    I have had mixed interactions with CARES. Overall, I think the animals of Burien would be better served by RASKC.

    • CARES says they offer more services than RASKC, but they don’t. Their contract is very limited.
    • CARES says they are better than RASKC, but they aren’t.
    • CARES says they follow health protocols, but I have seen different.
    • CARES thinks their front desk person is fabulous( but she is abrupt; rude on the phone and in person; and has extremely limited knowledge about animal care, behavior and health).

    I think the CARES staff really believes all of the above. They are so new in the field of animal care, rescue and control that they just can’t see how little they know and how it is negatively impacting the animals that are entrusted to them, and the community.

    If CARES has broken their Contract, and it can be documented (written,photos, testimony, etc), couldn’t a lawyer sue Burien on half of the citizens, demanding the closing of CARES and immediate contracting with RASKC? Perhaps there is an animal loving lawyer or two that would be willing to work on this Pro Bono.

    • Flashdog says:

      That was a good letter, huh, if you don’t mind, I will add more information on the differences between “CARES” and the Regional Animal Services of King County (RASKC)
      1. RASKC accepts any owner surrendered animal from any resident of a city RASKC contracts with AT NO CHARGE unless the shelter is completely full (and that shelter is almost never full). CARES (according to their web page) does not generally accept any owner surrendered animal, but if they do, they want A FEE for doing so. (Hmm, kind of tough if you are surrendering a beloved pet because you are in financial disaster.)

      2. RASKC employs two vets and a very wonderful vet tech. Every animal that comes into RASKC’s shelter is checked by a vet and receives treatment if necessary. PIMA Medical Institute (which trains vet techs) holds classes in a building on the shelter grounds and lets the RASKC vets use PIMA’s high quality medical equipment if necessary. CARES can’t seem to give us any clear information about what (if any) veterinary care animals receive. We only get vague generalities… veterinary care.
      In my opinion, this is nearing a crisis point. There have been reports of several cases of Parvo (a terrible canine disease that is fatal if not caught early) in the Pacific Northwest. Parvo is very contagious. If CARES continues blundering along in its normal way, it is very likely that they will, sooner or later, pick up a Parvo infected dog that will cause a massive outbreak necessitating the euthanization of every dog in their “shelter”. What about dogs that are there waiting for their owners to find them? Well, it would all depend on how well and how recently those owners had their dogs vaccinated for Parvo.

      3. RASKC uses the very sophisticated Chameleon software system to keep track of every animal that comes into the shelter and to record whether it is reunited with owner, re-homed, euthanized, or if it died while in the shelter. CARES has an ever growing list of animals that have somehow disappeared. The last number I read here on the Blog was in excess of 200.

      4. RASKC has more than a dozen well-trained, very experienced (5 to 20 years on the job) field officers. The shelter manager, Gene Mueller, was selected after a nation wide search. He also has had extensive training and much experience running other, larger shelters. RASKC also has support staff, an excellent volunteer co-ordinator to get the maximum value from volunteer efforts, a 200 member foster network, and roughly 400 volunteers. CARES has a “director” and a “field officer” both of which have had only very short, super basic crash courses in animal control. Allegedly CARES has 15 foster families — trained by whom? RASKC only allows people to foster after they have received appropriate training. RASKC’s 400 volunteers include dog walkers who exercise the adoptable dogs several times every day. Those dog walkers have taken training classes from a respected local dog trainer who donates her time. The point of #4 being that, in RASKC even the volunteers are well trained, whereas at CARES, even the director and field officer have almost no training.

      #5. RASKC is widely respected. They have worked in partnership with other local rescues like MEOW Cat Rescue, Seattle Purebred Dog Rescue, Aussie Rescue, Placement, and Help Line, Purrfect Pals Cat Rescue, Pawsitive Alliance, NOAH, and many others. When RASKC has a dog that fails a temperament test, the officers go to their computers and find a private rescue that can work with that dog until it adoptable. Every animal has a CHANCE at RASKC. At CARES….well, who knows what happens at CARES.

      I could actually list many, many more important differences between RASKC and CARES, but I will stop there. So, in answer to TcB’s demand to know if I (or anyone else) would be willing to pay more for RASKC’s services, my answer is a resounding, YES!!! However, as other posters have pointed out, there’s no need. Contracting with RASKC will cost right around the same amount as CARES or less. If YOU care (pun intended), absolutely bury your Burien city council in a torrent of e-mails demanding that Burien contract with the genuine animal control and sheltering agency.

      • Feralcat says:


        Sadly emails and many testimonials will NOT work. Mike martin has to fired. There are no two ways around it. When he is gone maybe something can happen.

        Jack block seems to think it is to expensive to go back to KCAC instead he wants to hire ONE cop. I personally think we do NOT need another cop we need to go back to KCAC, this is of course my opinion.

        Flashdog your info was great, BTW. Some how we need to find out just how many animals are truly being killed, turned away ect.


        Both FAF and FCAT and been working tirelessly behind the scenes mostly with cats to deal with idiots at cares. Be it feral or friendly. We do all that we can do.

  10. Feralcat says:

    HUH? I do know that in the contract that if a human gets bit, the city of Burien can not be sued. That is why cares has insurance, god I hope they have that. it took them over a year to get their 501 3 c.

    HUH? NO I do not think even the city council can sue much less the citizens (isn’t that what the council is supposed to speak for the citizens?) the council can ONLY cancel the contract, and as long as mike martin is sitting on that chair and certain other council members are there, that will NOT happen.

    I can’t seem to copy past the numerous things that cares does not follow in the contract.

    As for dead animals VERY sadly, in the contract cares does NOT have to pick up dead animals. The trash people do, and I can tell you from personal experience in talking with one just how heartbroken he is about it. He can not take time on his work day to go to a vet to check for chip, if there is a tag on the collar he will call, but more often than not there is NO tag. When I see a dead animal, i just take it to South Seattle Vet and pay the cost, it is not much, but better than seeing on the road over and over again.


  11. sallie tierney says:

    Cares couldn’t get a job as dog catcher. Oh, wait . . .

  12. Denis says:

    This seems to be the most highly contested issue on this blog. When it comes to animal care / welfare, it becomes a very touchy subject. As a vegan I hold animal welfare in a very high regard.

    That being said, I’ve never been to the cares facility. I have volunteered my time at the Kent shelter on several occasions and I can say from personal experience that they have an amazing facility. The place is run by people who have a deep rooted respect and desire to help animals. That is first and foremost. I have only ever read the negative reviews of the same four or five people on here. Since this debate took off on this blog, so I’m not sure I have a very wide demographic of users to make a real judgement on the issue. I have never stepped into CARES nor have I had a reason to call them. So my opinion comes from this viewpoint.

    What I do know is that you get what you pay for. If we are paying 1/3 the cost of our previous animal control bill, I know for a fact were getting 1/3 or less as good of service. If we want to pay more. In taxes then we need to vote for someone who will raise a tax so that we can pay for such a service, or someone who will cut other services so we can afford King County animal control.

    It doesn’t seem like our animal care shelter is being run by true animal lovers, but more by a group of people who are more interested in our cities administration. I feel like there is a conflict of interests in this scenario. A local bar and grill owner shouldn’t be in charge of something that in itself is a full time job like CARES. I don’t know what the exact right answer is but it seems as though the right answer isn’t the answer we are working with right now.

    Speak with your vote.

  13. Barry says:

    There’s a young copper-colored Pit Bull mix it looks to be between 6th Ave and 8th Ave on 139th St SW that seems to be homeless. For the last two nights it has been staying in front of a house next to the chain link fence at the sidewalk. The dog has a collar but no tags.

    I’ve called this in before but no one answers or whatever. Who takes care of dogs like this?

  14. Eaton B. Verz says:

    Call Mike Martin @ city of Burien. He handles these situations. 206-248-5508. Good Luck. Hope the Dog doesn’t get too cold tonite! Eaton

  15. Feralcat says:

    UM NO ONE. Sadly.

    Is there a dog house, food, and water in the yard? It is the law that these be present, so yes cares should be at least check on this.

    if those 3 things are not present then cares can take the dog of the property. Oh but wait, Ray says all animals have homes. So I am not not quite sure what to say.

    Does this house have occupants in it? Do live near the house to see if humans come and go? Because if no one that you see lives there, than the dog would be deemed Abandoned and yes cares can AND should take it. Again these are things that cares should be doing.

    I hope you have kept record of your “contact” (rather lack there of).

    While I can possibly help, if you want you can contact me. 206-427-6454. I actually have some knowledge about the laws and what can and can not be done.


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