LETTER: What’s the connection between vehicular manslaughter in Virginia at a White Supremacist rally and a rape in Burien?


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[EDITOR’S NOTE: The following is a Letter to the Editor, written by a Reader. It does not necessarily reflect the opinion of The B-Town Blog nor its staff:]

Dear Editor,

What is the connection between vehicular manslaughter in Virginia at a White Supremacist rally and a rape in Burien?

As I watch the national events unfold about a White Nationalist rally in Virginia I am struck by a dialog I recently participated in on Facebook on the ‘Burien Proud Burien First’ page. As I was deleted from that group, I will address my remarks here where I assume the response remarks will be more uniformly moderated.

Dear BPBF Admin,

On Facebook you twice posted links (here’s one):

1. ICE: Illegal Immigrant Charged With Brutally Raping Teen was Dreamer – Happening Now

2. With the comment, “This is so sad”.

3. When pressed you said, the point of posting was. “information.”
This is more than sad, it is using this rape to say to people in our community should feel threatened by all the undocumented immigrants in our community and it is why you support Initiative 1.

The above (1, 2, & 3) are facts; here is another fact:
Yesterday, known nazi sympathizer James Fields 20 of Maumee Ohio allegedly killed Heather Heyer aged 32 and injured 19 others when he rammed his car into a group peacefully protesting on Saturday in Charlottesville Virginia:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/13/charlottesville-james-fields-charged-with-was-pictured-at-neo-nazi-rally-vanguard-america

What is the connection between vehicular manslaughter in Virginia at a White Supremacist rally and a rape in Burien? Should I now use this as my poster child and conflate his behavior to support of Initiative 1? This is not as far-fetched as many will say it is.

The connection is NOT that all immigrants are racists etc. The connection is that there is an uprise in violence since the inauguration of the Donald Trump and threats and violence from extreme right wing groups are on the rise across the USA focussed huge spectrum of people from immigrants to Jews; ask any editor of any news organization. Further, by not condemning this behavior the POTUS is tacitly approving it.

I, IMO, not anyone else’s opinion, maintain that by taking the position you have you have stepped on the slippery slope to violence against minority and religious communities. By posting the crime in the context of Initative 1, I maintain this is tacit encouragement to fringe members of our community to act out the same violence you abhor. I am respectfully asking you IS THIS TRULY WHAT YOU WANT?

I believe in the goodness of humanity, i know there is fear of violence, loss of prosperity and fear of the unknown. But Initiative 1 is not the answer it is part of the problem.

Is this really what we want?

To see more not less violent behavior?

Do we want to see violence come to Burien?

Would you feel like there is blood on your hands if something horrible happened?

As someone who believes in the goodness of people and my neighbors, I cannot even let that thought enter my heart (nor do I believe that you do). I maintain holding up this rape IS NOT about making our community safer it is actually making us less safe because it encourages the mentally unstable to act out.

Would you be advocating as you do if you could be charged with a crime?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/one-dead-as-car-strikes-crowds-amid-protests-of-white-nationalist-gathering-in-charlottesville-two-police-die-in-helicopter-crash/2017/08/13/3590b3ce-8021-11e7-902a-2a9f2d808496_story.html?utm_term=.ff55bd1bab53

We have a choice, right now, for who we want to be, what we teach our children. We have little control over national politics but we can do a lot in our community. I maintain we need to come together and that we need to look back to the 1930’s and not repeat what happened then. I just don’t understand how anyone can support Initiative 1 and not see it on a spectrum of hate and violence. I don’t buy this is about the rule of law. I maintain something far darker is contained within and we cannot go there for the above stated reasons.

Please respond with numerical data and facts why you believe otherwise?

– David Feinberg

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Comments

40 Responses to “LETTER: What’s the connection between vehicular manslaughter in Virginia at a White Supremacist rally and a rape in Burien?”
  1. eric says:

    A little reminder from the past: https://youtu.be/5LOtPHOnCJc (1947 US War Department video – excerpt.)

    • Tom Taaffe says:

      Eric: I hope everyone who views this blog string opens the video clip you suggested. It is an excerpt from a movie made in the time of WWII. Does the voice of the bigot sound familiar? He is still with us isn’t he. Tom

      • David Feinberg says:

        Hey Eric,

        Great video clip, TY>

        Hey Everyone,

        This thread asks a question. What’s the connection between vehicular manslaughter in Virginia at a White Supremacist rally and a rape in Burien?

        And I request if you are going to participate please don’t hijack the thread into a who’s allowed to be here or what their citizenship is here or elsewhere. These are really off topic comments.

        What I am concerned about is this:
        1. Are we fomenting and encouraging hate and violence under the veneer of the rule of law?
        2. Whether the consequence is intended or unintended suddenly deporting law abiding, taxpaying undocumented people is having an effect not just on the undocumented community but all communities of color or with an accent, citizen and non citizen alike

        Many of the above described (brown and accented) people no longer feel safe and secure in they lives in their neighborhoods. Yet this is the same security that groups like Burien Proud Burien First want to claim for their (white) selves.

        So let’s get back the the questions posed:
        Is this really what we want?
        To see more not less violent behavior?
        Do we want to see violence come to Burien?
        Would you feel like there is blood on your hands if something horrible happened?

        Until this dialog happens, not who should be here or what the law says. Not until we talk about our values, morals and ethics will the divisiveness stop.

        So please David Silver, Lisa Parks, Darla Green, answer the questions?

        What is America; who do we want to be, how will we make that happen?

        I’m inviting a dialog, write me back thoughtfully and respectfully and I’ll do the same.

        David Feinberg

  2. Karen T says:

    I am in agreement with you, David.

  3. Maenad says:

    Bravo David, thank you.

  4. David Silver says:

    Mmm, nope. Remember the 5 cops murdered in Dallas at a BLM rally? (hint, they were all white).

    Remember this from Barack Obama in 2016 (hint, last year):

    “The spread of vibrant social diversity is constricting the GOP’s ability to champion conservative causes, such as smaller government and independent families”

    Racism has many forms – especially on the left.

    • Chris Rimple says:

      David Silver said:

      1. Remember the 5 cops murdered in Dallas at a BLM rally? (hint, they were all white).

      David is implying a relationship between BLM and the murders, but investigators found that it was a lone gunman with no ties to any organization, as shown in this article:

      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html

      2. Remember this from Barack Obama in 2016 (hint, last year):
      “The spread of vibrant social diversity is constricting the GOP’s ability to champion conservative causes, such as smaller government and independent families”

      David is lying and a simple Google search revealed the truth. The words above were written by Daily Caller author Neil Munro in an article published in February 2015, in reference to an interview that President Obama gave with Vox (which is linked from the Daily Caller article), and are not an Obama quote nor from 2016.

      3. Racism has many forms – especially on the left.

      David is attempting to smear the left as violent, using implications (without factual support) and outright lies. He then uses those smears to try to convince others to oppose the Sanctuary City ordinance. Don’t be fooled.

      • David Feinberg says:

        Chris Rimple,

        I cannot make heads or tails of what DavidS is trying to communicate besides sowing confusion, TY for decoding.

      • David Silver says:

        That guy in the car was in the car by himself – nice try at a double standard though.

        • David Feinberg says:

          David Silver,

          Yes by himself in a car but united in spirit with the Neo Nazis.

          This is exactly the point!!!

          When:
          We as a culture allow w/o condemning Racist beliefs (in this instance White Supremeacists)
          The POTUS does not condemn the behavior

          The bigots, like David Duke and Richard Spencer at one end go the spectrum and Craig Keller are encouraged to carry out their agendas and their foot soldiers on the front line will be the ones yelling racial invective and driving cars into crowds.

          By endorsing this or being in denial that you are, puts their blood on your hands.

          David

        • Chris Rimple says:

          David, first you blame BLM for the actions of a lone gunman, then you claim that the actions of a lone driver shouldn’t be blamed on Nazis? I think you need to look up “hypocracy” in the dictionary.

      • Seahurst resident says:

        Extremist tend to be violent, whether they on the right, left or motivated by Islamist ideology. Even the antifas are violent. Just look at what happened in Hamburg.

        • Burien voter says:

          There is no equivalency between antifa and Nazis. None. Antifa doesn’t stand for genocide. To say “there is blame on both sides” is to say that Nazis are the same as not-Nazis. If you cannot say that not-Nazis are objectively better than Nazis, you have nothing useful to add to any conversation.

        • Clean it up! says:

          I might add, those who are charmed by extremists will pick up their weapons and go into battle for them, as witnessed through out history over and over again. I do not use the word ‘charmed’ accidentally. The charmed never see the misgivings or feet of clay of those they idolize. They soon develop a herd mentality that not only destroys all who stand in their way but eventually themselves. They are not above lemmings in their heedless rush to go over a cliff. For many the fervor of large enchanted groups is the most exciting thing they have ever experienced and they love it. For some such emotional arson is very frightening and rightly so. Think twice before turning out for any such fanning of ideological fires.

  5. David Feinberg says:

    We as a country, are at a cross road in history that, I for one, never expected to have come up in my lifetime.

    I get it that people are scared and want to protect jobs, property and their sense of security. But we do to do this fairly and inclusively. Being fearful of undocumented people and accepting that this may entail having more violence and hate happen to them so you can feel safer and more secure is not the answer.

    I’m calling on Lisa Parks or Darla Green to enter into a civil dialog here to discuss the topic. Everyone says they want less divisiveness; well it’s never going to happen if we don’t have a frank, open and honest dialog.

    David

    • David Silver says:

      Being sent home after illegally entering isn’t being subjected to hate. It is being sent home.

      Mexico requires migrants to being verifiable income before moving there – otherwise Mexico deports people.

      • Haters gonna Hate says:

        Someone ASSUMING that you are illegal just because you look like a latino or anything other than a European caucasian IS being subject to hate. You cannot tell just by looking at an immigrant whether they are legal or not. I am certain that there are plenty of illegal Canadians amongst us who would never be asked for “papers” if they were stopped for whatever reason, simply because they “look” like they fit a general stereotype of what an American is supposed to look like. The position you support is very clearly emanating from a racist core because the only conceivable way to enforce your position is to engage in racial profiling – racist act. By their acts they shall be known.

        • David Silver says:

          Hate to break it to you, but Mexico admits people based upon Iberian Peninsula lineage for automatic Mexican citizenship once proven. (hint, European-Spanish descent). Mexicans don’t have the same sensibilities you do.

          The fact that many people from Mexico have a ‘Latino” look is irrelevant. It is just part of the articulable suspicion of suspecting someone if illegal entry.

          If they are here legally, there is no problem.

        • Question Authority says:

          I have never met an illegal Canadian.

  6. David Feinberg says:

    Hi David Silver,

    I’m at a loss regarding your responses, they are so far off topic I don’t see anything to respond to. The tread is asking a series of questions about who we are not peoples immigration or citizenship status.

    There is a thing that happens on the internet in these dialogs where random non sequiturs and factoids are presented as somehow relevant or discussion posts when they are neither. I’m asking for a respectful dialog on the topic I wrote on. If you want to discuss, Mexico admitting people based upon Iberian Peninsula lineage for automatic Mexican citizenship once proven. please start a thread or explain why that is relevant?

    David

    • David Silver says:

      If you are here illegally – you are an ILLEGAL ALIEN.

      “The Court uses the phrases ‘illegal immigrant’ and ‘illegal alien’ interchangeably…The Court uses this term because it is the term used by the Supreme Court in its latest pronouncement pertaining to this area of the law. See Arizona v. United States, 132 S. Ct. 2492 (2012)”

      • David Feinberg says:

        Hi David Silver,

        Once again I’ll try to engage you in a conversation, regardless of the name undocumented or using the legalese of the courts; immigrant, illegal immigrant or illegal alien.

        WE are talking about human beings.

        Per Michael J,
        Initative 1 is not about applying the rule of law, that is for the courts. This is about profiling, removing due process, and using limited local resources to codify (justify) the fears of its proponents. This is about assigning probable cause based upon one’s appearance, religion, or ethnic origin, not one’s actual behavior. It is about as contrary to American values as you can get.

        The question is not what (dehumanizing) name you want to label your fellow human with but how you want to treat them?

        Further I’m not asking an opinion/interpretation of the law. I’m making a statement that I believe we are institutionalizing discrimination and encouraging violence both physical and economic against a class of non-whit people and that this is a more important conversation to have in a divided community and country.

        Are you a divider or a uniter? Would you like to make a positive conversation or not?

        David

  7. Seahurst resident says:

    Making a connection with Nazis and applying the rule of law with Initiative 1 is like making the connection with what is happening in Europe with Islamic terrorism and illegal immigration.

    It is completely irrelevant. Being a nephew of Nazi concentration camp survivor I have heard too many real stories about what happened during the Nazi time in Europe. It was about persecuting Jews who had done nothing wrong yet being successful and legally established themselves into European nations. What does that comparison have to do with a country that provides tremendous opportunities to legal immigrants yet wants to enforce the law on illegal immigration?

    • michaelJ says:

      Initative 1 is not about applying the rule of law, that is for the courts. This is about profiling, removing due process, and using limited local resources to codify (justify) the fears of its proponents. This is about assigning probable cause based upon one’s appearance, religion, or ethnic origin, not one’s actual behavior. It is about as contrary to American values as you can get.

      It is not about apprending and deporting the majority of illiegal immigrants who overstay their visas. It is not about apprehending and deporting illegal immigrants who have committed other crimes. In fact it will do nothing to address that. But it would make the proponents feel like they have done something they have not.

      • Shari says:

        An earlier poster clarified for us that it’s about “the articula(ta)ble suspicion of suspecting someone,” a semantic Escher staircase of chilling clarity.

  8. Lake Burien says:

    Answer: There is no connection.

  9. Burinal Dumas says:

    The VAST majority of Trump supporters aren’t Nazi’s.

    Just like the VAST majority of Obama supporter weren’t Black Panthers.

    Why would a Nazi even vote for a President who has a Jewish son in law & grandchildren? Makes no sense. It proves just how stupid that small group of racist Trump supporters really are.

    Secondly if Trump were a white supremacist he would be rounding up every non white race in the US and sending them away or killing them like Hitler did.

    The only thing Trump is doing is enforcing laws that are already on the books.

    People broke the law when they came here illegally. Now they need to go back home.

    Race does not even come into the equation.

    If you are a white Canadian who came to this country illegally and raped someone, ICE will be looking for you.

    People are bringing race into a fight that has nothing to do with race.

    It’s about a sovereign nation with international borders that needs to be secure for the safety of ALL Americans regardless of their race.

    • David Feinberg says:

      Burial Dumas,

      If all you say is true, which I do not accept, then why is the initiative 1 campaign using a rapist, who was born here, as representative of this community you want to, “go back home?”

      David

    • michaelJ says:

      I”…t’s about a sovereign nation with international borders that needs to be secure for the safety of ALL Americans regardless of their race.”

      “If you want total security, go to prison. There you’re fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking… is freedom. ”
      –Dwight D. Eisenhower

  10. David Feinberg says:

    Hi Seahurst resident,

    Thank you for the polite and reasoned response. My family, like yours, lost many members to the holocaust.

    Yes I am connecting a long string of dots. What Nazis in Virginia and a rape in Burien have in common is simple. Both groups feel entitled to take advantage of the current political climate, a tolerance of bigotry and hate, under the cover of free speech and the rule of law.

    1. What happened in Virginia is reprehensible
    2. Using the Burien rapist (who was born here) as the poster child of an anti 651campaign is also reprehensible.

    Were the supporters of 651 not using this the tactic of putting all undocumented people into the same category as the rapist, we could have civil debate. But when the campaign uses race baiting as the underlying argument. I do not accept your logic but will say to you. This is divisive behavior. Win on the merits of your position not playing to peoples fears

    When the haters come because you are Jewish what will you say to me in the cell we share? No I am not overreacting, I am saying this is a slippery slope and history is repeating itself – wake up.

    I once again call on:
    Mayor Krakowiak
    CM Wagner
    CM Edgar
    DarlaGreen
    Lisa Parks

    The people who (currently) represent Burien to come to the table and discuss in this open and independently moderated forum why what I posit is wrong? The silence is deafening.

    David

  11. David Feinberg says:

    Not surprisingly, here has not been any response from:
    Mayor Krakowiak
    CM Wagner
    CM Edgar
    DarlaGreen
    Lisa Parks
    Who could all write from their non-official Burien email address.

    To quote Lisa Parks, “this is so sad”.

    We now have the POTUS endorsing the exact type of racially oriented attack because he does not want to alienate his base, so now he is not condemning Nazi’s.

    So if you are the good people who I want to give you credit for being;
    How can you square the POTUS supporting hate and violence and saying you want Burien to be a model american city that abhors hate and violence? People of color, people with accents people with different religious beliefs are being singled. Both citizens and undocumented.

    WHEN WILL CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY TRUMP PARTISAN POLITICS?

    David

  12. Kirk says:

    It is a rule of law thing whether you buy it or not. It is against Federal Law to illegally immigrate to the USA. We should be able to ascertain citizenship at hospitals, schools, on job applications, applications for govt assistance, and if someone is arrested.

  13. David Feinberg says:

    Hey Kirk,
    TY for a polite and reasoned reply. I beg to differ. Laws like history are written by those who prevail.

    With 651 we have a law that prevents Burien city employees from collecting information on race (read muslims)

    If it is repealed the Craig Keller et al would like to put a law on the books thus collecting information. Were such a law to pass, that tears the fabric of our national culture. It will be a viscous national fight. We are discussing voting on an initiative that asks us to vote on constitutionally given rights. This is wrong.

    I’m asking for a dialog that discusses both sides of the consequences of the above on the community. Trying to limit the conversation to the rule of law is like trying to swat a fly wit a cannon. It is the wrong tool.

    Davis

  14. david Feinberg says:

    Hi Lisa Parks,

    Since I have been removed from Burien Proud Burien First, I cannot respond to where you commented on this very thread. Since you commented on THIS thread it is most appropriate to comment here to do less is just gossip on BPBF.

    You said and I quote:

    “Then there is this – when someone (that would be me) has decided to portray you as some kind of radical because they (that would be me again ) can’t accept responsibility for their (that would be me a third time) own actions: http://b-townblog.com/2017/08/14/letter-whats-the-connection-between-vehicular-manslaughter-in-virginia-at-a-white-supremacist-rally-and-a-rape-in-burien/

    I’m inviting you to a civil dialog here on the B-town Blog, as I cannot post to BPBF and frankly with you as admin that is not an appropriate place for this discussion.

    Please advise, what is is I am not taking responsibility for as well as whatever else is on your mind?

    Respectfully,

    David

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